Entrepreneurial Activism
Where do conscious business, awareness practices, and social impact intersect, I'd start with Paul Zelizer. In this episode Paul gives some very practical wisdom on what it means to be a conscious business and how to even begin down that road. Paul has dedicated his life to supporting others through his coaching practice and is creating positive waves throughout the social impact space. In addition to his business coaching practice, Paul founded the Awarepreneurs Community, a vibrant group of social entrepreneurs. He is also the host of the Awarepreneurs Podcast, which has become one of the leading podcasts in the social impact space. Listen to learn more about the amazing work Paul does and check out the links above to see how you can get involved with the work he is doing.
Imperfect Show Notes
While these notes are not perfect (computer transcription is still a work in progress), they give you the gist of the conversation. Enjoy!
My conversation with Paul Zelizer:
Morgan Bailey 0:02
Hello, and welcome to the profit meets impact podcast where we explore the intersection of doing well and doing good in the world. I'm your host Morgan Bailey, and I'm excited to bring you the wisdom of entrepreneurs and thought leaders, they're using business to create sustainable and meaningful change across the globe. I'm really excited to introduce Paul Zelizer. Paul Zelizer is just an amazing human being with so much passion. He's a conscious business coach who supports just a wider range of individuals doing amazing things out there. He is the founder of the aware printers community and the where printers podcast is, which is one of the leading and premier podcasts in the social impact space. Paul, I it is a delight to have you on the show.
Paul Zelizer 0:47
Thanks for having me on the show. Morgan, really grateful to be here. And congratulations on this podcast. As you know, I'm a bit of a podcast. And
Morgan Bailey 0:55
yes, you You are absolutely and for full transparency. Paul has been at one of my mentors and business coaches. So it's a pleasure to have him on and to be able to explore some interesting topics.
Paul Zelizer 1:07
I think we've got some things to talk about Morgan, this is true. This
Morgan Bailey 1:11
is absolutely true. So, you know, one of the first things I'm always really curious about is, you know, you, you refer to yourself as a conscious business coach. And I think sometimes people are unaware of like, what what does that actually mean? So I'm curious if you could talk to a little bit of what, you know, what is the mindset that you would attach or you know, that that represents what a conscious business coach or conscious business leader is.
Paul Zelizer 1:38
One of the more impactful conversations I've had in my entire life, Morgan happened when I was 17 years old. I was in some trouble with drugs and alcohol. And after a particularly bad night, I sat down with a very wise family friend. And just, she was like, what happened and I told her what happened, I was really embarrassed and ashamed and knew I was headed down a bad track. And she did something that changed the trajectory of my life. She helped me understand my own nervous system. She said, basically, this Paul, you are wired for point in experiences. And this goes one of two ways. You either have a lifetime of drama and addiction and maybe die young, or these these things called awareness practices. And there's a lot of them out there, this was really important. She wasn't trying to recruit me for a church or guru or sell me something. She was trying to explain my own nervous system to me and, and she said, if you, you know, I don't care which one you pick, but if you pick one, you're gonna live a good life, and you'll be of service, and you'll feel alive. And when you're on your deathbed, you'll look back and say that was a good life. I really hope you take that second option. So she was inviting me into the world of living consciously and helped me seeing my choices given who I am and how I'm wired, right? What does that have to do with being a conscious business coach, that conversation changed the trajectory of my life. And I started with learning about yoga, I started meditating at 17 and learning I'm a Jew, I learned about Jewish mysticism, and contemplate of Christianity and Buddhism, and Sufism, and all that stuff. Anyway. She was there in a poignant moment to help me make sense of what my choices were given who I really am not who I wished I was, and you know, but in the very sticky, real life, this is what's true right now of my messy 17 year old life, she helped me make good choices. Right? And businesses really complicated right now. It's, it's scary when the biggest crisis the economy has ever seen, in our lifetime, at least, business leaders are facing tough choices. And being a conscious business coach, for me is about if I can do some version of what she did for me in that moment of just helping me understand where I was, and how certain practices without like getting attached to Paul, you need to do X, Y, and Z but helping me understand how I'm wired, what what the realities of the situation, what the implications of the choices that a leader might make in that moment. And what the ripple effects and how that aligns with their values and who they're on the planet to be. In a really simple kind of couple minute version. That's what I think a conscious business coaches mark.
Morgan Bailey 4:30
Amazing, wasn't thing that's coming up for me as you say it this idea of, you know, we don't actually have to separate who we are, from how we show up in all things in life. We can.
Paul Zelizer 4:42
That's part of how we got in so much trouble, right? The humans in the work environment are very human. And when we stopped when we take our humanity or pretend that we're not wired certain ways, and we don't allow ourselves to be imperfect. Beautiful, loving, messy humans, we get into so much trouble.
Morgan Bailey 5:04
Yeah, I think that's a really I mean, yeah, we're in that moment right now. Yeah. So, you know, looking forward, I mean, what is it about this business mindset that you think really needs to shift globally for us to evolve into whatever's next for us?
Paul Zelizer 5:24
Yeah, Eckhart Tolle, he says, evolve or die kind of feels that way in, in our current economic system, we literally can't keep doing business the way we have been doing it. And there's so many ways we're kind of running into limits of that way of being environmentally and socially. With the civil unrest we're seeing in the Black Lives Matters, protests, people just are awakening and saying, We will not give our money we will not give our boats we will not give our access to the kinds of ways of being that have been existing. So I think we're literally at this point where we're just at the end of that mindset of single bottom line capitalism, right? We're just done. Some people recognize that more than others, but I think the listeners of your show kind of have a sense, right? Absolutely. So what comes next? I think there has to be a better understanding of, you know, we've used the language of people and profit and purpose. For a long time now, right, you know, triple bottom line, quadruple bottom line, and all that stuff. But I think we need to really get much more inclusive. Historically, the folks who have talking that talk are very privileged and very white. And the world doesn't look like who's been having that conversation. So I think the conversations are, are good and rich. And we've been in some ways on track, but we've been off track in not being inclusive and not understanding that a very small privileged group of folks are not going to be able to turn the ship that planet Earth design, we need to have those conversations but be much more inclusive, and much more honest about who's had access to those kinds of businesses and decisions and tables where those conversations are happening, and who has not had access to those conversations.
Morgan Bailey 7:32
And one thing I'm really curious about here is because I think there are a lot of business owners out there who would who would agree with that sentiment, but they don't necessarily know what does that look like in practice, and particularly around the word inclusive, I think is a powerful word. But what I'm curious about is, is, you know, what, what does inclusivity mean, for business owners right now?
Paul Zelizer 7:57
Oh, goodness, that's a great comment. What we're actually doing, we went as a were printers, we went to two of our members, Nicole Lee, who's my personal Diversity, Equity and Inclusion coach, when I need help, I got a Nicole and her collaborator, somebody else I've also studied with Eric Hines, and we're doing we've asked them to do a three session class called inclusion and conscious business, because it's such a big issue for so many people in this space. And they're some of the best diversity, equity inclusion trainers in the United States and in North America, and I think in the world. So I think part of the model of that that I'm really excited about. It started as a conversation in the web printers community. But it quickly got apparent that it wasn't just our members, and the founder of aware printers, Paul Zelizer, who wanted to be better at that, although certainly I do. But this was a space wide just like, we need to get better, and we don't know how it kept hearing. And so I think part of it is just acknowledging, wow, there's, this is a very poignant and timely topic. The people that came before us in this movement are good humans have done great work, but haven't done great in the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion part of the conversation. And let's just acknowledge that just like 17 year old Paul's like, in trouble with drugs and alcohol, didn't know what the hell he was going to do to, quote, fix it. But he would willing to sit down with somebody smart and say, I'm kind of in trouble. I'm kinda like, this is not good, right? And then be in conversation. In her case, the wise woman, she knew something about living a good life in balance. The 17 year old Paul did not well, Nicole and Erica, they're two black women who've been studying these issues for decades. They're incredible. Both are human rights lawyers. they've studied this stuff and been on the ground. Let's go humble ourselves and do some work together as a space. So I tell that story, not just about the particular class, which I am very excited about in the where printers help promote. But the idea that a space could acknowledge and move it beyond any one person Morgan or Paul or Jane who's listening, or Leticia is listening. But say, as a space, how do we create acknowledgement? We haven't done a good job? And then how do we find resources to take the shame and the blame out of like, oops, right? Okay, just let's acknowledge it. And then let's go find some people who can build those skills and learn the competencies to allow us to create more inclusive businesses in the conscious and social impact. nap of the business world, that's something I feel really passionate about. And that's I think, so much of it is just acknowledging, we haven't done a good job, and let's start a conversation and get some skill building about how he can do better.
Morgan Bailey 11:02
Amazing. And a couple things. That what what I'm curious, because I think there are a lot of business owners out there who want to have these conversations who want to move in that direction. But they they know what they know. And they don't know what they don't know. And, and I think it's like, what does it look like? Like what, you know, what would somebody business like, you know, and let's say, you know, small to medium sized business, you know, what, what would it look like to be more inclusive? on like, a very tangible level? And what would the outcomes be? Because I think a lot of people are interested in moving that direction. And they're just like, I don't like, I don't actually know what that means. Does that mean that like, I'm like hiring more diverse people? Does that mean that like, I'm assigning someone to work on diversity, equity inclusion? Does that mean I'm changing my customer base? I think I think a lot of people are like, I'm not really sure. Where to even start?
Paul Zelizer 12:00
It's a great question. I know. There's no one right answer, I can't think about that. And I can share how some of our colleagues who've been thinking a lot about these issues, but I think all of those are viable. You know, we're printers, we're probably at about 40 to 45%. I say probably because we don't have any formal way. But of our 300 I think we have at this moment about 303 members from around the world, between 40 my estimate 40 to 45% of our membership are people of color, which in the conscious business and wellness space is pretty high, pretty white spaces, right? Do we have room to grow? Absolutely. Right. But we've been working on this front since our inception, it's been a core value ours from day one. That's been part of the things that I as founder, I'm thinking about attracting as a white Jewish guy to like, how can work printers, which at this point only funds me, we're a one person company, right? We're that's not my intention forever. But that's where we are right now. So as a white Jewish founder, you know, what's our membership look like? What are not only but numbers, I'm also curious, inclusion is more than just who's there, but what's the experience of our members of color? Right? That would be what are what's our experience of our LGBTQ members? Right? So they're, you know, I think staff and or employees or team is one level, I think customer base is another level. I also think for me like community of impact. So I'm also paying attention to the clients of aware of partners members, not just our members, but the our members, our business and mostly service business. So my products, so I should say, clients or customers, but most are service businesses. So what about the who are our members serving? And which communities are they do they have on their radar? And are they having impact? And are they talking positive impact? And, you know, they're in a diverse community or a little more diverse, community aware printers and having these conversations, but then they go out, and everybody they're serving is white, and they're not touching? That's not what I want. I'm not trying, I'm trying, I'm looking at that. So, you know, I can share how I'm thinking about it. But I think part of it is having really honest conversations, where are ones priorities? And how do you begin to start to move the needle because you can't do it all immediately. Those are multiple layers. And those, you know, I've been working on some of these issues since I moved to New Mexico in 1993. Right. It's a lot of years now.
Morgan Bailey 14:58
Absolutely. And I think one thing that I'm hearing and all this. And I mean, obviously, the awareness is huge. And also the fact that we don't exactly know what all of this is going to look like, and you don't need to start having the conversation. I could actually Oh,
Paul Zelizer 15:14
yeah, exactly.
Morgan Bailey 15:16
Yeah. So, one, one thing that I'm really curious about, in particular, your role as, as a business coach is to think about, I guess, his decision making. And, you know, because I think When, when, ultimately, when it comes, I mean, all of our life is just a matter of different decisions. And we talked about being a conscious business, is what, you know, how do people make those decisions? And in the moment, so when you're working, when you're coaching people, you know, what does it look like to coach someone through making conscious decisions? And and how do they How is that process is different than perhaps the default way people might make decisions?
Paul Zelizer 15:59
Hmm, that's a great question. I like to have simple lean structures. That, so for instance, when I'm working with clients, we're oftentimes using a very simple structure for questions I use for questions in whether I'm working with a solo startup entrepreneur, or some of my clients have, you know, dealt out things with, you know, 100 employees, or whatever. So, those simple questions are, why, who, what? And how? And so we start with the why, you know, Simon Sinek, had a viral TED Talk called start with why your purpose, your values, right? And touching in on those, and then and then the who have it, what are the specific kinds of peoples and communities you're looking to have positive impact in. And then we start talking about the what the product, the service and describing it and what kind of changes might want to happen due to COVID-19, for instance, and then we get into the how, and this is the nuts and bolts of marketing, you know, strategy or strategic partnerships. And those are real nuts and bolts. And the reason I bring that up is, sometimes people get into the nuts and bolts of like, the why I gotta change this product, or there's another iteration that I'm working on. But they forgot about the why, and the who, and for me, those questions, keep it really grounded. And when somebody starts getting a little bit over focused on the what, and the how, which I think modern business, you know, can get very transactional and miss some of the values and remember some of the human relationships, just having a simple structure like that, if I feel like a client is they're losing their their energy and their sense of purpose and their sense of like, why are they doing this in the first place? those simple questions can come back there, like a practice and like, okay, you said, you really wanted to impact Morgan, you really wanted to impact, you know, social impact business leaders, or, you know, green or conscious business leaders, in the way you're talking about, it feels really transactional right now about some particular thing, right? So those tracking those larger questions of the humans and the communities we want to help and the why our personal values and sense of what we're doing on this planet, can kind of bring us bring back into focus that what's larger than ourselves and having that simple structure for me. It's not linear. Sometimes we work a little bit on, you know, we're refining the who, and the client primarily came to me for a marketing strategy. But like, I feel like they lost their who, let's come back to that for a moment and just like pause and just reconnect with that person in your heart and maybe have an avatar that you have in mind. Let's let's bring her into this conversation just for a moment because it's starting to feel a little Yeah, mechanical, and I don't think that's what you want. And I have seen clients be unhappy with the results when it's only mechanical. And a simple practice like that, let's bring, let's you know, call her whomever, right? Let's call her Lisa. Let's bring Lisa back into the conversation and make sure that there's a heart connection there as we're continuing to work on this going forward. Those simple practices make all the difference. That's amazing.
Morgan Bailey 19:41
What's what I'm imagining is a second sort of upside down pyramid. You know, where it's the, the why the who and what kind of cascades down from there for so the how actually is, is the, the action part is actually the smallest part of the pyramid. Like when you're when you're employing this In terms of decision making, you know, what is the cause? Because I imagined, like, a lot of times I want to just get into, I just want to dive in. Right? And so what are important practice is to make sure that people are firmly rooted. And that why, and that who
Paul Zelizer 20:20
I think it's an ongoing practice. And some simple ones are to actually write down your core values and post them in your workplace. That's a, that's a favorite of mine, you know, and I, I like to say, I'm a minimalist, I like to say to clients, three core values are better than 30. Because 30 become almost meaningless, right? Now, does it have to only be three, no, but you get the idea, here are a couple of core values in your workplace in a way that you can see them and touch in, and just use them as a remembrance practice. Or the classic of your ideal client or your client avatar, who is that that you're trying to help, and to really, you know, kind of boil that down, at least for a particular product or service, that there is one person Lisa is easier to keep in your heart and in your care than, you know, some vague description of somebody who has certain qualities and does certain things with their life, or make their living in a certain way, those aren't as tangible to human nervous system as a particular person or a compilation of somebody. So making it connected and making it tangible by doing things in your workspace or writing a compilation of who Lisa is, and then remembering, Lisa, before you go into writing that sales page, or making a video that you're going to put out there to market something that the very simple practices, but that they're tangible, like that make a big difference.
Morgan Bailey 22:08
Yeah, absolutely. And I love you bring in nervous system into this because I, you know, a nervous system is ultimately what drives you know, unconsciously as you know, our decisions, and a lot of cases. And so being aware of that. And you know, one thing that comes up for me in terms of business, and I know a lot of business leaders, this idea of trade offs, you know, we talk about conscious business, we talk about value led businesses, but when it comes down to making decisions, such as should I pay more for some higher quality? You know, raw products? Or should I go with cheaper options that are going to help improve my bottom line? There's a decision moment there. And, and I know at least for me, sometimes, you know, this happens at the grocery store, do I buy organic? Or do I not? You know, this fear comes in of scarcity. And so I'm curious, when you're working with clients who are making these trade offs, and who are in there, they worry about the bottom line in business sustainability? How do you walk them through that? And what does that process look like so that they can actually feel comfortable making decisions that are more aligned?
Paul Zelizer 23:15
That's a great question. The one of the things that comes up Morgan is to peek kind about where we are on this process. And sometimes see it as like, there's a should or one kind of want. Like, there's a one size fits all way that these decisions should be made. And yeah, somebody who's a startup entrepreneur making $3,000 a month. And, and somebody who's been in business 20 years, and making $30,000 a month or more. They have different options. And they're in different places. And sometimes with the startup entrepreneur, sometimes it's like, Hey, can we practice compassion and also use it as motivation. You want to be able to buy everything organic and the nice, you know, the padded gonia jackets that will last forever. But do you really have $350 for rain jacket right now? You know, you're making $3,000 a month and like it's okay to not buy organic right now. Right? Sometimes the my role as coach is can we just be kind and not beat yourself up that you can't afford them? You know, it's more expensive sometimes to buy organic or source the I'm using the rain jacket, right? And if you're making $50,000 a month, right? Then like, come on, like you let's let's embody your values and let's go get that $350 rain jacket because, you know, that's what if it fits your value, so, so I think being kind to ourselves about where we are but also diligent about like, how do we create a business business that we can support our lifestyle. Not you know, I live in a tiny house, I'm not like trying to, you know, have somebody live in a castle and drive a Lamborghini if they don't want that. I don't want that. But I also sometimes see people feel pressured to make choices that they can't really afford at their particular level of development. And how can we use that poignancy, I want to be able to buy those things that are made with quality and sourced in a way that feel really good to me. And the honest truth is, I might not be there right now in terms of my tech or who I hire and what I pay them and my personal choices about what I eat, those all matter profoundly. And let's be kind about where somebody is on the journey and keep moving the needle towards more and more values, aligned choices, without beating ourselves up that when we start, for instance, our industrial food system makes food really cheap. It isn't always quality, it isn't always great for the earth. But sometimes when you're just starting, we just need to like be a little kinder, and pay attention to the Dirty Dozen and buy those organic, and the rest to get a path while you're building your business. So you're not stressing out in the middle of the night, feeling pressured and urgency and intensity and like putting your ability to have a roof over your head at Jeopardy while you're in startup mode. So there's a there's that kind of like longer vision, kindness about where we are. But let's also use that heat and urgency to like keep moving the needle at the next right step. So that both for yourself and your employees and the people that you're impacting in the communities you want to serve, that you're more and more values aligned at every level of your life.
Morgan Bailey 26:49
I like that. And what I think it really also opens up is the ability to be compassionate with others. And not have not everybody is at the point where they're willing to spend all of their money on a values aligned way. And if you can understand that, and have compassion around that, you know, it opens up the conversation to help shift, which I think is really important.
Paul Zelizer 27:10
And particularly you know, I'll give you an example. We've had some fabulous conversations. Some of your listeners may know in the month of July, we're July 2020, we're recording this and August 2020, there was a big campaign on Stop, stop hate for profit, and particularly a boycott of Facebook. And many of our entrepreneurs of color in our printers, you had some wonderful conversations in specific that boycott was to ask businesses not to use paid advertising on Facebook and 1000s of Facebook lost millions and millions and millions of dollars, because businesses all around the world said yes to that this was an initiative that was started by the NAACP and Color of Change and the anti defamation league and other you know very well known leaders in the social impact space. And I'm personally I'm divesting from Facebook in a longer term way I did take part I haven't advertised on Facebook for quite some time. But I'm moving my energy, my social networking to LinkedIn, it feels more valued aligned and the kind of leaders I want to be there. And people in a workplace that I really appreciate that choice, Paul, but a lot of people of color, like Facebook is kind of the village green. And we don't want to feel judged or attacked, that you're making some longer term decision to move to other spaces I interviewed the founder of me, we and I'm checking that out for you. So these are just examples. And I heard it loud and clear and support that if somebody needs to use Facebook, even though I personally don't, I have concerns about some values there. And the stop hate for profit can give you a sense of what some of those concerns are, I don't expect everybody to be able to make that choice. I'm privileged. And I can do that. And I talk about those choices I make and why I'm going to LinkedIn. And if other people want to go to LinkedIn and a word printers, we have these little pods and we help people get skilled and make connections there and learn how to grow their business there if that feels values aligned for them. But if they're in a place where they really need that just kind of network effect of Facebook and cheap, effective if you do them while benefits in their business of using Facebook ads, we understand and support that. So that's a very real example from conversations that we've had and aware of printers that it's a long term shift and sometimes to just take care of yourself. You got to work with the systems we have now and those systems right now or from a values perspective often suboptimal and yet to not be able to pay your bills and beyond the St. That's not going to help you be the kind of social impact leader and have the positive kinds of businesses that we're talking about either. So we oftentimes are facing tough choices.
Morgan Bailey 30:11
Absolutely. And and I think when it comes to living a conscious life and being a conscious leader, it really just comes down to making conscious choices. And sometimes those conscious choices aren't the ideal. We don't get to make the ideal decisions that we'd like to. And I think what what sounds most important I'm hearing, this is just being aware of that, having compassion around that, and allowing for iteration as you move forward.
Paul Zelizer 30:38
Yeah, keep walking in the direction. Like, we've had some fabulous conversations and my network circles about the connection between perfectionism and white supremacy. It's such a powerful thing. So you know, probably beyond the scope of how much time we have. But I just want to really encourage listeners that, you know, that this, like, if I can't do perfect, if I can't, if I can't afford to never advertise on Facebook again, then I don't do it at all like that is such a bind that gets in the no use an iterative, kind of lean approach of what's the next right step towards both building the business but also moving in the direction of the values. And in a system that hasn't been functioning in an inclusive and environmentally conscious ways. So we're, we're coming out of very toxic systems. And we can only do the best we can with what we have. The thing that I would then say is just keep, you know, don't get comfortable in some kind of halfway there iteration, but just what's the next right step with kindness, but also conviction and then the next one, and then the next one? And then the next one? That's the people I respect take that approach.
Morgan Bailey 32:03
Well, I really appreciate you saying that. And as we're kind of closing down this conversation, what I'm really left with is this idea of, we don't have to know how this all plays out in the end, we don't i don't have to know what this looks like. Exactly longer term. I just have to know what the next best step is. And and to not let that perfection. stop me from taking that next step and just learning along the way
Paul Zelizer 32:27
that and try to find some peers who will support you and share what they're doing and what they're learning along the way those would be my two if your listeners to this episode took away those two things from this conversation. I would be feel like this was time well invested.
Morgan Bailey 32:46
Awesome. Or maybe finding amazing business coaches? Well, we'll throw that out
Paul Zelizer 32:51
there that can help.
Morgan Bailey 32:53
Well, speaking of that, you know how can people find you I know you've both for us Paul's elzar and as puzzles are and is the founder of a web printers.
Paul Zelizer 33:03
Yeah, so one on one and small group coaching I do through Paul's elizur COMM And my last name is z like zebra, e l. i z like in zebra er. And then aware printers is this podcast that, you know, we tend to talk about these kind of things and this fabulous community of 300 plus people who are sharing and helping each other learn how to use LinkedIn or, you know, find a reference or referral for a website for this kind of business, etc. And that's that aware printers.com the first part of the word awareness and the second part of the word entrepreneurs plural aware printers.com. Okay,
Morgan Bailey 33:41
awesome. Thank you, Paul. And one last question is, What are you reading right now?
Paul Zelizer 33:47
What am I reading right now? My grandmother's hand the book about embodiment in diversity, equity and inclusion.
Morgan Bailey 33:58
mazing. I there was a there was a podcast on that on being interviewed the author of that. So definitely on my reading list as well. Well, Paul, I want to thank you for your time and all the service you're doing for the world. And I hope the listeners got some value from this and I look forward to continuing this conversation.
Paul Zelizer 34:17
Thanks for having me on Morgan. And again, congratulations on the podcast. I'm so excited you're doing this.
Morgan Bailey 34:23
Thanks for listening to another episode of the profit meets impact podcast. If you've enjoyed this experience, please subscribe wherever you find your podcast and leave a positive review. You can also find out more about the podcast at www.profitmeetsimpact.com
Transcribed by https://otter.ai