Social Enterprise for Smallholder Farmers
Excited to share this episode with Pankaj Mahalle, Co-founder & CEO at GramHeet. Pankaj was brought up in India in a smallholder farming family and it was through his lived experience of the physical, emotional, and financial stress facing modern Indian farmers that propelled him to co-found Gramheet, a brand which provides integrated post-harvest services to over 8,000 smallholder farmers. Their work has helped farmers increase their income by up to 40% and has prevented over 1300 metric tons of grain losses over the past two years alone.
Learn more via the links below:
Other links mentioned in the show:
Imperfect Show Notes
While these notes are not perfect (computer transcription is still a work in progress), they give you the gist of the conversation. Enjoy!
My conversation with Pankaj Mahalle:
Morgan Bailey 0:02
Hello and welcome to the Profit Meets Impact Podcast where we explore the intersection of doing well and doing good in the world. I'm your host Morgan Bailey and I'm excited to bring you the wisdom of entrepreneurs and thought leaders that are using business to create sustainable and meaningful change across the globe. I'm excited to jump into this conversation with Pankaj Mahalle co founder and CEO of GrahamHeet. Pankaj was brought up in India in a smallholder farming family, and was through his lived experience of the physical, emotional and financial stress facing modern Indian farmers that propelled him to co found GrahamHeet, a brand which provides integrated post harvest services to over 8000 smallholder farmers. Their work has helped farmers increase their income by up to 40% and is prevented over 1300 metric tons of grain losses over the past two years alone. Because it is such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Pankaj Mahalle 1:03
Thank you, thank you so much for this opportunity to share my work and my journey so far.
Morgan Bailey 1:12
Thank you had such an amazing journey and such an amazing story. Can you tell us a little bit oriented as to how what your personal experiences were that led you to found GrahamHeet?
Pankaj Mahalle 1:26
Yeah, definitely. So I being born and brought up in a smallholder farming family. I have experienced the struggle of smallholder farmers, I come from the very small village of your small district, which is that district unfortunately, in famous for farmer suicide, because the highest number of farmer suicides occur in my district. So that's my background, because this lived experience actually has propelled me to start my own organization grant.
Morgan Bailey 2:03
Wow. So I mean, in talk to talk to me a little bit more about that. So you're talking about farmer suicide. So for, for a lot of our listeners who aren't maybe familiar with some of the challenges being faced by farmers in India, talk to us a little bit that what would I mean, what would why would that lead to suicide?
Pankaj Mahalle 2:20
Yeah, I mean, I would like to share my story first year, I mean, why, actually, the experiences of my district selling or the agri industries. So for example. So every Diwali, my parents face the difficulties in buying a new cloth for me, even though we had a bumper crop. So because immediately after the harvest, moneylender or intermediately, grab our farm produce, to record their loan. Therefore, all the time, my hopes of getting new clouds remain, and Mayor hopes so that kind of experience I had in everyday Valley. And somehow it's, I feel that the dichotomy of our systems, because we are a cotton growing farmers and if you're not, we are not by not able to buy new plots or new dress for ourselves, then it's a fundamental challenge for for us to how to live that was the UN This is not for only about us. In India, more than 62 million farmers are constantly living another day. And my family was one of them. When I asked my parents about this debt trap, and they said that we both unfortunately be born in debt, live in debt and we will we die with this debt trap. After my post graduation, I promised my parents although we born in and we are living in the in this debt trap, we will not die with this debt trap. So deaf poor after the three years of my corporate job, I come back to my own village I left that job and with my co founder, with my partner so life partner, we started that we thought that we need to work on our the the issue, the complex issues of agri industries, therefore, we actually start our own organization. That's the experience we have just I shared with you in
Morgan Bailey 4:31
a park Pankaj, thank you. And I want to you know, for our listeners to really understand that situation with the farmers. So I mean, you mentioned debt as, as something that is an every day occurrence. It's you you were born with debt you live with that you die with debt is what you said, which is it's pretty drastic. So when it comes to like farmers, how do they incur debt? Where does the debt come from? And how is it a cycle It seems people get trapped in.
Pankaj Mahalle 5:03
Now, in the last two, three decades, the cost of cultivation has increased a lot, but there are, but simultaneously there are risk and uncertainty also has increased a lot. There are so many technological innovation has incorporated in in my country, but these technological innovation also has comes with the cost. But unfortunately, due to the climate change and other aspects, challenges, the farmers are actually facing the so many risk and uncertainties, and therefore, that debt trap actually has never come, we have not actually break that term. So, therefore, I mean, we, on the other hand, we actually feel proud about this that the agriculture sector qualifies as the largest employer in India. But despite having so many challenges, our farmers are not only managing to feed the 1.4 billion people, but also exporting to the many parts of the world. But, on the other hand, more than 75% of the farmers want to quit farming, if they get an alternative. The situation is so vulnerable, that every half animal, one farmers come suicide. Why do the farmer takes a drastic measure? This is because farmers are grappling with many complex issues. And I think post harvest issues are one of them, which we are trying to solve through Grameen.
Morgan Bailey 6:30
Yeah, absolutely. And so when you talk about post harvest, it's, it's it's pretty much what happens after the grain, right? And so you know, what it sounds like, one of the challenges that these these farmers are facing is, you know, once they harvest the grain, they owe money immediately. It sounds like they're already in debt. So they harvest the grain. And that sounds like they've had to take on debt to you know, probably for to buy the seeds to do whatever it takes to cultivate. And then as soon as they have the grain sounds like they immediately have to sell it, is that correct?
Pankaj Mahalle 7:05
Yes, is I mean it all the time, they have to be have the situation, because backup storage space in their houses, and urgency of cash to repay this money lender or input seller. So all the time, they have to face the challenge of distressed selling. So that's even the My Plan itself, so has the face the same problem. And now, millions of farmers are facing the same because of they don't have this facility in their village.
Morgan Bailey 7:33
Yeah, and so you say distressed selling, right? I mean, it sounds like you're selling perhaps when you don't want to. And it sounds like one thing you're talking about a storage like simply just having a place to put it is a challenge is
Pankaj Mahalle 7:47
because India, unfortunately, even though we are agri in country, we don't have the good enough interest of post office infrastructure, therefore we are every year we are losing around 10% of the footprint loss. We are facing the challenge of footprint losses. And this 10% of footprint loss is I think, is equivalent to the total production of that much quantity, we are losing every due to the lack of us to post harvest infrastructure. And the smallholder farmers are actually directly hitting because of this problem.
Morgan Bailey 8:26
And I imagine if you're not able to store your grain, you have to sell it as soon as everyone else is selling it, which I'm guessing means that the prices are probably not the most competitive. When people have to sell this, is that correct?
Pankaj Mahalle 8:41
Yes, yes. So because during harvest in time, everyone has the crop to sell on the market prices are goes down because of the access of the supply there. So that and therefore the farmers actually has the the challenge, not because of the lack of storage space and urgency of the cash. They can't wait for the favorable market conditions. They have to sell their produce through all prices.
Morgan Bailey 9:14
Which it sounds like it just kind of continues that cycle of poverty. And going back to something you mentioned before Santa's growing cotton and not even being able to afford clothes made out of the cotton is the great irony. And all of that. Yeah. It's so so you you've experienced you know, you experienced this as a child, you experienced a young adult, you went off you had some of your own experiences. And you came back to your family and said, you know, we're not we're not going to put we're not going to live in debt for the rest of our lives. Right. And so, where where did this idea of when did you decide to say Alright, well, I'm going to create a business not only to help us, but to help other farmers. How did that idea have to be.
Pankaj Mahalle 10:02
So I asked my parents first of all, when we left the job before left the job. So we wanted to work for the for our farm income committee, because we saw that in the sense of childhood, there are so many challenges you're facing. So if our educational or the organizational experience can help to address such kind of issues, so they said that in the last two, in the last two decades, so our production and per product it has productivity has increased, but unfortunately, our income, actual income has reducing every year. So can you reduce how we can reduce our expenses, and in a similar, on the same time, how we can sell our farm produce with dignity, because we don't have the choice, we don't have the agency, they said that, to hold our produce, on wait for the terrible market conditions, we don't have the freedom to sell. So how I can get the freedom through through your organization. That's the the question to us and we thought that just this is a good sign for us to work on the post harvest issue.
Morgan Bailey 11:25
So then talk to me a little bit about you know, what your what does Graham he do? How does it How does it support farmers and and how were you able to actually create that part that business?
Pankaj Mahalle 11:38
Yeah. So, so, we work with the village level, I mean, community based organization. So they provide our services at the fascinated our services at the village level. For that we established a committee base a centers we call it village Trade Center. And truly at the grommet, we provide three integrated services, storage, post harvest credit, and market linkages. So these three services, farmers actually can pull their produce, and they can avail the seasonal price gain whenever they wanted to sell they can directly sell to the institutional buyer. So I mean, it's a great opportunity for them to hold their product because we are providing them a decentralized storage facility, second instant post harvest credit again their storage and market linkages to our digital platform. So, our innovative model of this real estate center, we ensure that accessibility and affordability through a smart storage container, which we develop recently, second, absolute transparency through a quality analysis lab, because we establish in every places where we are working this character analysis lab, so, farmers gave the quality analysis report of their farm produce, which is again we are addressing the issues of informal procurement system in existing where existing Monday's market because these big due to this informal way of tracking produce farmers always actually I mean, these traders are many lenders or intermediaries are exploiting farmers in all the stages. So, due to this quality analysis lab, now farmers are confident about the to negotiate with these traders. Second, we provide the digital platform and due to the digital platform, the our community based organization get the efficiency to do the their businesses at the village level. And apart from the better price realization, I think farmers are able to prevent a Foodgrain losses significantly because this hermetic storage container held them to store they're produced scientifically and due to the quality analysis slab is also because fortunately in India, in agriculture market the credit to the grains in their teeth and and based on their sense, they said to the price to the farmers. So that level of informality we have informal system we have and these informal system is a root cause of our farmers exploitation. So therefore we are very much committed to to build a transparent system, transparent value chain for smallholder farmers so that no one can dispute them.
Morgan Bailey 14:48
Yeah, I mean, what it sounds like is I mean, you're one you're giving them options, because it sounds like before, you know they would grow grain, they'd be in debt. They'd have to sell it immediately because they'd have a place at Do it or you know, or they needed the money. So it sounds like you're giving them options, the first option is, here's a place to put it, you know, so you don't necessarily need to sell immediately, it sounds like postharvest Carver's credit, so that they can get some of those those finances early without necessarily, you know, having to sell to someone who's going to exploit them. And you also give them information, you know, in terms of the quality of their grain such that they have, they have some leverage when dealing with those who are going to buy it from them. So it sounds like a lot of what you're doing is giving them power and options, to be able to, to be able to use their, their grain to their advantage.
Pankaj Mahalle 15:44
Yeah. So earlier, we thought that we just provide we can provide just a storage or credit, but farmer says that if you are storing here our produce, if you are providing the platform, so that we can bypass all these intermediaries, and we can directly say to the end consumer. So that will be another great help for us. So therefore, in the first first year, we started with only two services, then we added the third one market linkages, because it has a potential and these three services are quite interlinked to each other.
Morgan Bailey 16:21
So you're now working with, you know, you've worked with over 8000 smallholder farmers, you know how to talk to talk to me a little bit about how do you work with such a large number of farmers? And I mean, how many do you have? How many distribution centers I think you call them, like the the village trading centers are there, like talk to me about how you've taken this from the idea and scaled it to where you have now.
Pankaj Mahalle 16:48
Yeah, so we started our work first in my own village, where I born and brought up but and based on that experience, the past year itself, we started with four centers in your small district of Maharashtra. So, we started quickly decided that so we are, we wanted, we believe that the collaboration is the only way to deal with the complex tools of our society. So therefore, we in the first day itself, we we focus on how we can collaborate with a community based organization, so that they can deliver these services at the village level, efficiently rather than we are going there as a outsider in new places, and implement these services there. So therefore, because of this strategy, by partnering with or by collaborating with the committee based organization, we are actually rapidly growing from one district to another district. So currently, we are working in poor districts of Morris trusted. And recently, we actually enter in another state called Andhrapradesh. So that's a strategy because of the strategy and digital platform we have. We have a mobile app for the, for the farmers, because of this digital platform, and the mobile app, farmers are actually getting the access of our services very efficiently.
Morgan Bailey 18:26
Wow. I mean, that sounds so it sounds like some of the strategic partnerships with the you know, kind of the community based groups has been really critical for you to scale. So in addition to what you offer, finding those partners within the communities has been an important facet.
Pankaj Mahalle 18:43
It's help us also to build that trust from the day one itself, because they are their representatives come from their their villages. So once we want our own responsibilities to give them this, the tools and the guidelines and fact pack is a practices so that they can efficiently deliver these services at the village level, like if they wanted to provide a credit to the farmers. So they are the one they approve first from there into, in really these farmers need money or not. So it's helped us to disseminate the price information to them, as well as providing strong market linkages, because aggregations of this trucker produce. It's happened in that real estate center.
Morgan Bailey 19:36
Yeah, and it sounds like me, that's something that be complex for you to understand, you know, at your level of you know, what's you know, I guess who directly needs to the lending and who doesn't? So it sounds like partnering with with with people working within the villages they have much greater context of what's happening at the village level, which allows you to operate at your level
Pankaj Mahalle 20:00
Yeah, I mean, in us is the one farmer has made a large quantity because the land holding is so high, I mean, so he will. But in here we have two acre or three acres of land of it's a small bit of farmers a margin farmers. So, we actually have developed here systems where the buyer, the the institutional buyer, the big corporate buyer, also their requirement is to I mean the bulk and consistent supply, but smallholder farmers has a very limited quantity, how we can fulfill the both need need of both. So, therefore, this committee based organization, they aggregated their produce at their end and fulfill the demand of this institutional buyer. Otherwise, the smallholder farmers has no options to sell directly to the institutional buyer bypassing all these intermediaries, because these intermediaries are actually exploiting since many. So, therefore, there is no system there to decide in crisis to complete informed informal way of proclaiming system there. So, therefore, it's important for them in terms of supplying bulk and consistence quality supply to the institutional buyer. Yeah,
Morgan Bailey 21:26
yeah, absolutely. I mean, it sounds like that's such a value add for them, which I'm guessing is how you how you help them increase the value of their, of their profits by up to 40%. As, as you've mentioned, now, I'm curious for you, how does Graham heat make money? What is the profit model within Graham heat to help sustain this impact?
Pankaj Mahalle 21:51
So, thank you for asking. Because through this platform, I would like I want to share with the the many peoples are those who are listening. So this value chain is complete tight value chains, you cannot make the profit from the transaction more than one person. So gross 1.1% profit margin, we actually take from this we earn from the farmers we can say, through this transaction happen on or digital platform. Second, we also earn from the credit we are providing to the farmers. So the we have we partner with the financial institution, because in India, we need you you need a license for providing loan banking license, but we don't have therefore we partner with the financial institution, those who have the license have that. So they provide the credit directly to the farmers. But we also earn from their through this revenue channels to the to the credit channel, second, third, third, third one is we through the selling this hermetic storage container to the farmers. That's a third our revenue channel for us.
Morgan Bailey 23:22
Yeah. So So you have the three revenue channels. And so the first one is, is through the platform you mentioned. Yes. And that was it was one within 1%.
Pankaj Mahalle 23:32
Yeah, it's a 1%. Recharge. And because it's a very well, tight value chain, we cannot make the beyond that. But it's so we have large volume, because in the last year, we almost the 15,000 metric ton quantity has transacted through our platform. This year, we crossed around 25 to 26,000 metric ton. So every year we are going fast because it's a volume based business.
Morgan Bailey 24:09
So what it sounds like is me especially you're working with over 8000 smallholder farmers, which is a lot you're going over to 20,000 metric tons so it sounds like being able to charge you know smaller smaller fees to a wide range of individuals which both keeps the keeps the costs for them low. But doing that over so many scalable transaction means that you know, for gram heat that actually provides a sustainable profit for the organization.
Pankaj Mahalle 24:40
Yes, yes. Now usually it's difficult for us to manage the our expenses through this revenue because we are still we we are in less quantity, but the ads now we have setup, everything. Our business model has actually has no confidence in our business model. So, therefore, we are scaling rapidly from one district to another district. And now we are also in another state. So, so definitely, this is a good sign for us to, to work to come with come to the backend fine.
Morgan Bailey 25:22
Amazing, it's really amazing to hear that such such rapid progress. I mean, I think the organization was was launched in 2020, just before the pandemic, correct. Wow. So, Todd, you know, part of me is, is, is just amazing, like these, you know, all the services that you're offering. And it's curious, I mean, how did you, you know, when it came to building the business, what was it like for you to find the financial resources to start the business to find the help to develop the platform, that in itself seems like, like a large task in itself
Pankaj Mahalle 26:01
is always an integral part of the organization, I think, to manage the fund our to raise the point, especially in the early, early stage of your organization, because there you have to prove your idea, but how you can prove your idea, that's the main challenge for the especially for the founders. So for us, in the beginning itself, we got some fellowships and awards and recognitions. Because this problem, there are very few people in India working on these issues, but they mostly they are their solution are very separate, separate. I mean, they are working in very separate way. Like for example, if they are working on marketing, but they are not working on storage, some are working on credit, providing a credit to the farmers but not working on the store is fascinators. So this integrated post harvest services, actually are the catchy idea for them. And establishing the the the the new value chain supply chain for the agri produce itself isn't a good idea for them using the digital platform. So the initial days was really challenging because we started in the mid pandemic. So the world actually facing the different challenges. And for us, it's another layer of challenge for us. So so there are some organizations like I would like to share here in this platform like acumen, they come up with the idea that how you can build your organization within one year. So their support, not just for the mentoring or technical support, but they they provide us the funding, so that I include this funding, it's helped me to immediately start my operation. August in August, I started my organization, and they provide me the funding in October. And that's a big relief for me as a small organization, so based on that funding, I started my operation in your small district, and and after that, three to four months. So we got some awards and recognition that money also gives the confidence for us to work on our model. Then other team members also has joined. And I think at that time, the team which we we had that was the biggest trend, because most of them are come with the voluntary supports, initially because organization has the definitely financial crisis. And then later on also, to understand the point crisis, they come up with a solution that how we can raise the funding as early as possible. So all of them are actually putting their efforts from their network, how we can get the fundings efficiently.
Morgan Bailey 29:16
So it sounds like you're starting a bit of a movement. Yeah. That's amazing. And, and so it sounds like that initial that initial funding came actually came from the Acumen Fund. Yeah, amazing. Yeah. And I'll drop the link to that Acumen Fund in the show notes. So it sounds like the it's been growing. So you know, it was initially you and your life partner, right. Who who started the organization. Yeah. And and how, how has it grown? Now how many people are working for gram heat?
Pankaj Mahalle 29:51
There are 17 people working in, in in granite. I think our biggest strength is our team. But currently, all of them are actually comes from the mostly I mean most of them not all of them are most of them are coming from the rural part of India, and they also has some similar experience, which we have because they also have the farming background. So, I have experienced that building a lot of large I mean, I experience I have experience in working in the larger organization like Tata Steel, but may not be the all of them have the experience to work the organization like Tata Steel, but they have the shared vision to work for smallholder farmers.
Morgan Bailey 30:48
So, it sounds like you really, really, you know, you probably know opportunities to individuals, but individuals to also have such a deep understanding and care for smallholder farmers. Yeah. Wow. So, when looking when looking forward, for for gram heat, obviously, there's no shortage of smallholder farmers who could use support in India. What, what's next? How do you plan to scale to make an even bigger impact?
Pankaj Mahalle 31:21
I mean, in the next five years, we wanted to work with more than 100,000 smallholder farmers. And by working with them, we wanted to prevent a Foodgrain losses of around 220 1000 metric ton. And through our services, we also because we love, we don't love our problem. So I sorry, we don't love our solution, because we believe that we have to be aware, all the time, we have to be aware of that maybe we cannot continue the same services, we have to be used the different technologies we have to upgrade as as we have challenged facing the Assam adaptive challenges. So based on that strategy, definitely we will increase the farmers, even more than 40% Currently, the that 8000 farmers actually increase their income by 40%. So we wanted to increase that number from 40 to 60%.
Morgan Bailey 32:27
Wow. That's, yeah, that is a significant amount. That's impressive. Wow. So it sounds like you know, increase to over 100,000 and being able to save, you know, 20,000 metric tons. I'm curious, you know, for those of us who don't necessarily have an idea of what is a metric tonne look like, I'm like sitting there trying to think about that. What does a metric tonne look like? Or how many people does it feel? How do we make sense of that number?
Pankaj Mahalle 33:02
So for example, one winter fall, we mostly use the one to monitor farmers. So one continuous 100 kg and 1000 kg means a kilogram means one metric ton. Oh, no, this is
Morgan Bailey 33:22
different. 1000 kilograms per
Pankaj Mahalle 33:25
1000 kilograms means one metric ton, but I cannot calculate with the person. How much person can be to this requirement wise. But and that's
Morgan Bailey 33:37
it. Yeah. And so that's, that's almost, it's almost 2000 pounds. So I mean, it's a significant when you're talking about, you know, when you're talking about, you know, 20 metric tons, so helps me get a little idea of what that quantity looks like, which is is a lot of food.
Pankaj Mahalle 33:55
Yeah, it's a lot of Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, just I like to share here the last year, the one aspect was very troubling for us, because even though we are family and country, but we don't have storage structures like warehouses and go downs in the village, the village level rural areas. So, that was the biggest challenge for us, and that I would like to share with you else
Morgan Bailey 34:23
Absolutely. So, like what what are the main challenges that need to be overcome?
Pankaj Mahalle 34:31
So, yeah, that first challenge, I would like to share with you. So one is the limited quantity or limited storage structures in the rural areas. Because these warehouses are mostly placed in this take place or being in are in big city. And most of these weigh warehouses are occupied with the big corporate or the government itself. So therefore, it's very challenging for us to provide the storage services at the village level. But fortunately the last year based on this experience, so, we have developed a hermetic storage container. And these kinds of studies facilities or services based on our childhood experience or my parents experience, traditionally how they stored their brains, in the villages or in their houses. But nowadays, these stories techniques are two story structure nowadays, not a we have not we are not able to see in the villages, because all the time it's deteriorate this practices. Therefore, we'd studied that ancient storage systems. And based on that, we have developed hermetics storage container where the smallholder farmers can store their produce at the village layer or the farm gate. And this centralized storage solution is not only convenient, but also affordable smallholder farmers. Another aspect of the solution is that farmers need not to use any insecticide to control the insect growth. Because in conventional warehouses, they have to use the chemical insecticide to control the insect group. And I think it's a 10 times hazardous. This kind of spraying there in the dry commodity on the community. Because that community directly absorb these insecticides. And it comes directly to your place. Therefore, as per my understanding that reading about this issue is 10 times hazardous than the playing on the field. It's helping others. It's a environmental hazardous. So therefore, this innovative solution of storing produce is really a game changer for the Indian agricultural market.
Morgan Bailey 37:15
Wow. And you're saying I mean, this is this is the this form of storage is actually something that has been used in the past. And that, you know, and I'm hearing that the benefit of storing this way is the reduced need for the insecticide which you need in large stores. So, and it sounds like something that's affordable for farmers, which sounds like a pretty, pretty significant win.
Pankaj Mahalle 37:42
Yes, yes. So we use that technology aspect, that because we we are proudly saying that it's ancient road technology, to storing such kind of guns because it's hermetic container. It's reduced, we reduce the oxygen level from that container, and eventually help the brain to at least build it says, I mean, due to this reducing the oxygen level at the container, the self life of this grains increased from four months to 16 months. That's another benefit for smallholder farmers. So do our technological innovation. Daily. We are actually I mean, we are with Carrboro. Proud, feeling proud to we are preventing the footwear losses significantly in the rural areas.
Morgan Bailey 38:37
Well, well that you know, and it just goes to show how sometimes, you know, certain things from the past actually have a lot to teach us about the present and the future to punk punk because I'm, I'm just amazed by the the work that you're doing, the impact that you're having. And if people want to learn more about your organization, how can they how can they do that?
Pankaj Mahalle 39:01
Oh, so about my organization, you want to share? Yeah,
Morgan Bailey 39:06
how? How can people learn more? If people want to learn more? Where can they find you on the web?
Pankaj Mahalle 39:11
Yes, yes, we have a website where we actually put it all our work there. Also, they can follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, where we all will share our updates about our work.
Morgan Bailey 39:29
Amazing, and I'll go ahead and I'll put those on the in the show links and partners. I also understand that in in India right now it is the festival of holly.
Pankaj Mahalle 39:38
Yes, yesterday the holy and Happy Holi to you. So Happy
Morgan Bailey 39:42
Holi which is the Festival of Colors which is a really beautiful festival in India.
Pankaj Mahalle 39:48
Yeah, it's a color of the Festival of Colors. Joy. There are many aspects and the we have a diversity in selling Listening syllables
Morgan Bailey 40:02
Yeah, that's amazing and I think I was telling you even just before we hit the record button about my own experience, so, you know, you know, I worked for about almost about two months in rural India particularly actually among a lot of villages when I was doing work with with air quality and looking at indoor and outdoor air quality, particularly around cookstoves. So I spent so much time and around smallholder around smallholder farmers and and just understanding the work you're doing puts a lot of context to that and the individuals that you're helping but also I was there for the festival of holly which was in itself a really beautiful and wild experience. I have to say probably one of the Wilder experiences I've had in my life
Pankaj Mahalle 40:47
thank you for our country is also has diversity but all the time we have every festival has comes with the different joy and the togetherness with community level or family level. So for example, in this occasion of fully we all family members are here. And we are fortunate about that we at least every two or one month. I mean one or one enhancement, we have a festival like this.
Morgan Bailey 41:22
That's amazing. And yeah, brings everyone together. And yeah, just that the beauty of celebration. I think that's one thing I always really appreciated about India was the beauty of celebration and the color and colorfulness of life. Well, Pankaj, this has been such a fun conversation. Really looking forward to sharing this podcast with you or with with the world. And look forward to our next conversation.
Pankaj Mahalle 41:50
Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much Morgan.
Morgan Bailey 41:54
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