Bridging African Talent to the Global Economy
In this episode we speak with Valerie Bowden, the founder of CRDLE, a marketplace that connects the world to African talent, the right way. With over a decade of experience living in East Africa, Valerie has helped some of the most recognizable brands in the world do business and investment in Africa. Her advice and experience in African countries has been featured on PBS, Huffington Post, NBC News, Yahoo, and the Washington Post. Before launching her career, she backpacked the entire length of Africa by herself.
Learn more via the links below:
Imperfect Show Notes
While these notes are not perfect (computer transcription is still a work in progress), they give you the gist of the conversation. Enjoy!
My conversation with Valerie Bowden:
Morgan Bailey 0:02
Hello, and welcome to the Profit Meets Impact Podcast where we explore the intersection of doing well and doing good in the world. I'm your host Morgan Bailey, and I'm excited to bring you the wisdom of entrepreneurs and thought leaders that are using business to create sustainable and meaningful change across the globe. In this episode, we speak with Valerie Bowden, the founder of CRDLE a marketplace that connects the world to African talent. With over a decade of experience living in East Africa, Valerie has helped some of the most recognizable brands in the world do business and investment in Africa. Her advice and experience in African countries have been featured on PBS, Huffington Post Yahoo in Washington Post among others. Before launching her career, she even backpacked the entire length of Africa, excited to bring you this really fun and invigorating conversation. All right, Valerie, I've been looking forward to this conversation. Welcome to the show.
Valerie Bowden 0:58
Thank you so much. I'm
Morgan Bailey 0:59
excited. All right. So your organization CRDLE helps to create opportunities for particularly for for those in Africa in terms of finding outsource jobs, and where maybe there's a need within other markets. Right. So matching need with opportunity. But I want to back up a little bit and think about like, so where did this all begin? How did you find yourself in this position doing this sort of work running a business like CRDLE?
Valerie Bowden 1:30
That's a good question. And I would say where I am today is never what I could have imagined a decade ago. So I was a social work major interested in international development. And in 2010, I went to Ethiopia to volunteer with orphans, like the classic stereotype, American girl coming to volunteer. And when I got to Ethiopia, it was a total train wreck. As far as the NGO like the nonprofit I was with, which was like, endorsed by like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, totally illegal not operating correctly, I started seeing like, other nonprofits were kind of in the same boat, not all of them, there's some great ones, but the ones I was in touch with in Ethiopia, were just creating more harm than good. And one day, I as part of my job with working with orphans, I had to actually take their biological parent to court to help them give up their right. And when I came to Ethiopia, I didn't even know that most orphans actually still have one parent living. And so you know, there were these moms who really wanted their kids, their kids, one of their mom, and the moms couldn't afford to be their parents to feed them. And so they had to give up, they're right there crying. And I just kept thinking, Why didn't someone just create a job or a factory or hire these women, so they don't have to give up their kid. And that kind of led me down to a whole trajectory of looking into business as a way to create the social impact I wanted as a social work major.
Morgan Bailey 2:59
Wow, that heartbreaking. I'm just imagining that situation and that scene. And I guess that that feeling of hopelessness, that that somebody must feel like, I have to just give up my child, because I don't have the finances, I imagined that that had to have made a really big impression.
Valerie Bowden 3:17
There's, there's definitely like an image in my head that has like, never gotten out of just one mom in the court, crying. And on the other end, you know, I was working with a lot of American adoptive parents, and I'm like, I'm not against adoption. And in some cases, it's been a great situation. But for me, when I saw, you know, 30,000 $40,000, to adopt a child who has a parent who wants them, and as a good parents, it didn't make sense to me. And that's what really made me want to look into business.
Morgan Bailey 3:47
Absolutely. And you imagine what, you know, if you would just give that money directly, even a small fraction of that to the family? Exactly. I would do. Right. Yeah. So. So what led you to I mean, obviously, the focus of your business, what led you to your work in Africa, in general, and more broadly?
Valerie Bowden 4:07
Well, after I volunteered, I went back to the US, I got my master's still in social work. And then I could not get Ethiopia out of my head. So for two years, I was just talking about Ethiopia, I missed it. And I was thinking it'd be so cool to see what other African countries were like. Because even though like my volunteer experience in Ethiopia was kind of negative, it was, it was really cool. Like Ethiopia is a cool country, and I didn't realize how much I would like it. So after my master's I got, I took a one way flight to Cape Town, and I just decided to backpack across the continent. And I thought I would just spend like six weeks and then come home. And instead I ended up traveling from Cape Town all the way to Cairo and I went through 13 African countries in the process. It was amazing. It was like me and attend and I was doing really cool things every single day. And that's what made me think these countries are so cool. or, like, there's so many job opportunities and business opportunities and, and it just made me want to live on the continent longer. So after my trip, I moved to Ethiopia and I started doing business.
Morgan Bailey 5:12
Wow. And you start building a family there.
Valerie Bowden 5:15
I did get. So I met my husband along the way. He was my neighbor, so uses my neighbor in Addis Ababa. And he's Ethiopian. And so we got married. And now we have two kids together. Wow.
Morgan Bailey 5:28
So one thing that's like jumping out for me in this conversation, because I think there's so much misconception about Africa. And, you know, as well, you know, I've spent a lot of time in the continent and learning some of these misconceptions. But even like this, this idea that you're taking this trip, you know, from one end to the other, right, because so many associate Africa, not with like emerging markets and opportunity, but risk. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about like, you know, what does it look like to dispel that myth? And one of the experience that you had that really countered that?
Valerie Bowden 6:00
Yes, well, I mean, first in terms of safety, I and I hitchhiked a lot on my trip, and I would never hitchhike in America. Right. And I remember even one time, like in Tanzania, I took a boat, and I ended up in this like, small fishing town. The only hotel was closed, and I just had a knock on some woman's house. And I was like, Can I sleep at your house? Like I had nowhere else to go. And so I ended up sleeping in her bed with her because she really had one bed. And then the next morning, I woke up and I caught my bus. And I you know, you would never do that in the US. Right? Like, I think it just kind of shows you that like what we think of in terms of just safety and traveling to the continent, let alone like business and all those opportunities. Especially Americans, we don't really know what what true African countries aren't like, like, the stereotypes and TV are just not what it's really like, you're actually there.
Morgan Bailey 6:56
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it reminds me I was I was recently traveling in Mexico, and actually, on Christmas day met, it met a family on a beach and they're like, come back to her place. And we're like, cool, we can just sleep in our car. They're like, No, actually will sleep somewhere else. You sleep in our bed. And they you know, and I was just like, wow, like the hospitality there. And I'm like, it did make me question. I'm like, Could I see this happening in the United States? I'm not sure.
Valerie Bowden 7:20
I don't think so. I think in the US, you wouldn't feel safe with someone staying in your house or staying with a stranger? I don't know. But yeah, I've seen so many different countries hospitality is, you know, really a value they hold high. And especially everywhere I went when I was in African countries, everybody was like, this is hard, wants someone to treat my mom or my sister or, you know, like, they really just treated me like family. And I felt so safe. And it was it was really cool. And it definitely opened my eyes to wanting to reevaluate everything else I knew about.
Morgan Bailey 7:53
Yeah, absolutely. Now, you know, one of the things that we talked about before, in our previous conversation is around this charity. And it sounds like you had this insight on like, there's something wrong with the charity model. And, you know, and I think you mentioned some other thing that I really appreciate. You're like, you know, African doesn't need another white girl. Yes. So talk to me a little bit, because that's, that seems like a fundamental paradigm shift. And I had a similar one from my time working in in African countries around the like, Let's challenge this paradigm of charity. But talk to me a little bit about that experience.
Valerie Bowden 8:31
That's, that's a great insight. Because, yes, after spending, like a decade in African countries, I have seen so many American projects fail, I've seen so many, you know, like the white savior, and it just blows up like it never makes a good impact. And just living there, I saw so many incredible locals who were they had the answer to the solution, they were going after it, they were way more capable than I would ever be. So I always try to say like, Africa definitely doesn't need me. And where I try and fit in is just talking to other Americans and other like Western countries about how like the way we think about African countries, the way we work, the way we donate, all of that doesn't really make sense. And we need to do better. And we need to partner with these really cool people who are in African countries and creating their own solution.
Morgan Bailey 9:21
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's so true. You know, and I had such a similar experience. I think when I was when I was younger, you know, I thought I had all the ideas. You know, I love that as a guy, I could do this, I could do that. All these ideas. And I think when I came to development work, you know, I had this like, oh, I have all these ideas on things to do and, and there are two situations that came out for me that were really potent one when I was when I was working in Tanzania. I came in and think I recently had a PhD. I'm like, oh, you know, sitting down with a local team. We do this. We do that. In the Country Director eventually sat me down after about a week and said, I think you're really going too, I think you're really gonna rub people the wrong way with your approach doesn't sound like you're actually listening and doesn't. And it kind of like hit me as like, you know, in my arrogance and ignorance. And it was really uncomfortable to sit with that. And to be like, Oh, wow. Like I'm actually perhaps doing more harm than good here. Yes. And so from that experience, I just, I stopped talking. And I started listening. And that stuck with me to this day a lot. And there was another experience that, you know, I remember that I was working in Kenya. And I had this idea to build a we're building hand washing station. So I want to build his hand washing station that doesn't have that you don't like his hands free. Right? So like, what in the town and here I'm like, you know, an engineer and whatnot. And Am I cool, I got this, I made this like, this pedal thing. I got like a bike chain, and like a gear, so it can like open a thing. And I'm like, This is so cool. I remember feeling so excited. I installed it. Like, we put it in there, everyone was super excited about this, oh, this is really cool. This thing. Felt pretty good about myself. And then I came back a year later when we were doing the next phase of the broader project. And it was all just rusted solid. And it was just like in disrepair. And I'm like, it would have been much better just to have a simple nozzle there, you know, in in, you know, and it just made me realize, like, you know, like, this isn't about my ideas. There are enough people out there with amazing ideas. And that, to me, it was a fundamental shift for me to be like, you know, what, how can I enable other people? Like, I think maybe my role is not being smart and having ideas, but enabling people who are much closer to the challenges and have much better solutions than I do.
Valerie Bowden 11:57
And yeah, that's so funny. I, I totally get where you're coming from. And I've, I've been there. I think a lot of people have been there. And I think before I did my backpacking trip, I saw this a funny ad where they reversed it. And it was like Africans heard that America can get cold. So they came with like their radiators, and like their heater devices, and everybody was just like what, like, we already know how to stay warm. We already know what we're doing. And this is so weird, you know? And like, if you always try to like reverse, like, if we they did that to us what we're doing to them? It does not make sense. It's so ridiculous. Um, so yeah, that's it's a good point to think about for sure.
Morgan Bailey 12:36
Absolutely. I actually do remember. I do remember actually seeing that that ad and if I can, if I can find the link for it. I'll put it in the show notes. Because I thought it was
Valerie Bowden 12:46
decade Yes. And, and I also now that my you know, my husband's Ethiopian. So whenever I try and think about how am I presenting something or talking about it, I just picture what I want to said about him or his family. And I mean, fifth percent of time. It's a definite no, like, it doesn't make sense when you actually know the real people on the ground. And so that's also helped me a lot.
Morgan Bailey 13:12
Amazing. Yeah. And I think that, like, it's a constant awareness, right. And I think when it comes to like, particularly as, as me has been a white privilege male, like looking at my, my bias, it's a constant conversation, and I have to constantly be learning. And so constantly uncomfortable process. And it's an evolution.
Valerie Bowden 13:33
Yes. Yeah, I agree. So,
Morgan Bailey 13:36
all right. So moving forward a little bit, you know, your experience in Ethiopia? Like, what about jobs and opportunities, as well as match with this? Like, I'm not sure about the charity model? And like, you know, I'm not I don't want to just be another like white savior. Like, how does that all wrap up in a saying, you know, this is how I can provide some, some service?
Valerie Bowden 13:55
Well, when I was living, so after my trip, I moved to Ethiopia, it's almost like eight years there. And I was first involved with companies actually had products. So if like an Ethiopian coffee farmer wouldn't sell their coffee, I would find an American to buy it. And, and that was really cool. Because I was being like, this is this part makes sense. Like I'm talking to other Americans about the best brands I know, on the continent, I was really enjoying it. And then my last few years of being there was through COVID. And so I was working for an American outsourcing company. And then with COVID, you know, everything went remote. And I saw this American outsourcing company that was in Ethiopia, go from 100 people to 600 people in one year. And I mean, they are doing work, remote work for big names like McDonald's in ANOVA. All tourists event, man MasterCard, like billion dollar companies. And their work is being done by these like young Ethiopian college graduates. They're doing a really good job. And I was Like, Oh, outsourcing and remote jobs is, first of all that feature. And second of all, it's one of the best ways to create really good jobs in mass, like, quickly. And so when we move back to the US a year ago, I started my business wanting to connect more people to remote workers across Africa, not just in Ethiopia, but in other African countries, too.
Morgan Bailey 15:20
Wow. So how did that begin? I mean, you have this idea, like, Alright, cool. I want to connect people. I mean, that sounds simple enough, in a way, but in practice, how did that come to be? And where does that lead you to where you are today in your business?
Valerie Bowden 15:35
It's Yes, it's definitely not been as easy as I expected. You know, on the back end, there's a lot of work when we connect someone to make sure that the talent has good internet, and reliable power and good laptop, good headset. I mean, there's like that kind of stuff, which is pretty easy to fix and take care of, and like all the big outsourcing companies are doing that. But on our end, it was a lot about training, matching the right talent with the right kind of company. And it's been a work in progress. For sure, yeah, there's, there's like, every day, I feel like there's a new challenge, we're kind of solving around it. But the overall picture has been cool when we do get like a really cool client, and we match them with a really cool team in Ethiopia. Like, it's really fun to see like, not just like the business side, but like the cultural exchange that happens. And that's the part I like,
Morgan Bailey 16:29
wow, that sounds really rewarding. Alright, so talk to me a little bit about the business specifics. Alright, so who like who are? Who are the people that, you know, that might be looking for what sort of organizations might be looking to outsource in terms of both both scale and industries? And then talk to me a little bit about, you know, those who you're actually placing are the individuals or the groups like, how does that work?
Valerie Bowden 16:56
Right. Okay. So I would say any company that has remote positions available, would be a great candidate to look for hiring some jobs in African countries. So that could be developers admin cold callers. We do a lot of lead gen work. So basically, any position that can be done remote, that's, you know, that's a company that can look into it, specifically for our company, I would say 80% of our clients end up being European. And like, despite the fact that I'm American, it's, it's really hard like the, it's really hard to find Americans that are open to hiring from African countries. And for some reason, when I talk to Europeans, they're like, oh, like a cold calling team in Ethiopia? Why not? Like, it's just like, there's so much more open to, to working with African talent than than Americans are. And so most of our clients are small to medium sized businesses in European countries.
Morgan Bailey 17:54
And then how many individuals? are you placing like fries at one is it 100 1000.
Valerie Bowden 18:00
So we do everything from like one, like one virtual assistants, to maybe a team of cold callers. That usually starts with like three people. And then maybe it grows to 10. And we've worked for for like, larger corporate clients, where they start with like a team of 20. And then they their goal is to get to 100 by the end of the year. I always say like, just start small with a couple people, because there's, there's kind of always challenges that arise, honestly. So solve it with like a small team. And then, you know, the business numbers are there like it is significantly more affordable. And there's a lot of advantages to outsourcing to Africa. So usually, once you kind of overcome those, like first few challenges that arise, then then people are willing to scale quickly.
Morgan Bailey 18:47
Yeah. And so that's, that's on the, I guess, the demand side, right? How do you how do you find those who you're actually providing jobs for?
Valerie Bowden 18:58
That's a good question. So originally, it was super informal. It was like people that I knew through living in Ethiopia. I also have a partner, two partners, one from Uganda, one from Rwanda. So they also helped kind of source people. And it was also informal. And then soon, we were getting lots of requests on LinkedIn. So I have like hundreds of people who messaged me each week wanting a job. And some of them are so talented, like went to Oxford University. They're back in Ethiopia or wherever, and they want a job. And so so we find candidates that way. But recently, we've been the scale up and make things easier. We are starting a partnership with a university that's in Rwanda. And they've actually received funding from Google and some other really cool organizations. And so we are now taking their graduates putting them through a short digital training just to make sure that they kind of have all the skill sets, they need to do these virtual jobs. And then we place them either in an internship Did or through a full time job with a company? So I think that will be the future what we're doing is working with universities that have a have a high pressure to to place their graduates.
Morgan Bailey 20:11
Absolutely. Because it sounds like there's there's a lot of very educated individuals out there who are looking for those opportunities. And are you seeing it within the, the African market? And I know that's broad. Obviously, it's a massive continent. But are there specific industries that you see emerging in particular?
Valerie Bowden 20:36
As far as outsourcing goes? Yeah, there's, there's different things are popping up. I mean, in like, one of the things that we get them the most is for cold calling. So not a new industry. And interestingly, I thought was like dying, but there's like a huge need for cold callers still. So we place a lot of cool colors in in Ethiopia. And, I mean, there's different things like we have one partner who has a nonprofit, and they train people to do Salesforce. So like someone in like, West Africa, can go through their training, and they become like an intern for doing Salesforce work. And then it's really cool, because Salesforce actually will give them someone who works in their company as a mentor. So it's like a really cool opportunity, if you need support on Salesforce to get an intern that's also backed by the actual company. And so we're seeing kind of like innovative things like that pop up a lot, which is cool.
Morgan Bailey 21:33
Amazing. So it sounds like you're, you know, one year, you're creating a pool of candidates, you know, and finding sources for those candidates from universities, you know, within, within Africa. And then in the US side, you're also finding opportunities to connect with other corporations, or or in Europe as well. Yes, yeah. So we have a burgeoning.
Valerie Bowden 21:58
Yeah, it's growing. And originally, I think it started off with a lot of our initial clients were people who either were originally from the continent, so it was really easy to convince them to hire someone from Africa, they already knew like the talent, the success, the benefits, all of that was quite easy, and really enjoyable. And then it kind of spread to people who wanted a social impact. So a lot of social impact entrepreneurs who wanted a virtual assistant. And then slowly, I think it's growing with larger companies who like the like the D and I aspect or the we've our entrance into their CSR program, and, and then eventually, you just get companies who want more affordable talent, and they don't really care about the impact whatsoever. But they, they just want really skilled people. And so we also work with them. And that's kind of cool, too.
Morgan Bailey 22:47
Amazing. Well, it just sounds like you're providing so many opportunities out there, which Yeah, I think people must be extremely grateful for.
Valerie Bowden 22:55
It's really cool. Like when I see when I see a company that has a good successful match, it's just like a win win on both sides. And it's really fun to see like the relationship row. And I think the biggest challenge for me is that because the content is solar, like large and diverse, and there's so many opportunities, like to stay focused, and niche and not not want to do everything, it's like, probably my greatest challenge right now.
Morgan Bailey 23:22
To not want to do everything to anyone I struggle with that.
Valerie Bowden 23:26
Like I can, we can sell coffee, we can work with this, we can do this, we can do it. Like we can do everything. Because there's so many opportunities, there's so many things that need to be done. And so more and more we're focusing on this is our niche. And then these are really cool people we know who do this, and then we'll just refer you. That's kind of been something we have to work on.
Morgan Bailey 23:46
I love that, you know, I mean, I think that goes with the people who are like the the enthusiast you know, you see the opportunities, you want to do it all. And I think the advice or something I read somewhere, it's like, yeah, quote by someone who said, yeah, the things I'm most proud of, are the things I said no to.
Valerie Bowden 24:03
And then it's like write that on my wall. And the meantime, I've been just, I've just like, well, and multi passionate. But But yeah, there's a part where you really do have to, to focus. And there's so many things that have been done. So it's just figuring out, like, what's our niche and what we what we can do best. And that's been really fun to discover.
Morgan Bailey 24:22
Yeah, amazing. So, all right, I'm imagining that, you know, as a business owner, let's say I'm a business owner in the US. If I think about, you know, like, I want to hire some some African, let's say, I want to I want to hire some content developers or some people to work on my website or something like that. You know, what are the what do you think the sorts of I guess maybe their biases, hurdles, things that I'll have to like, they that are preventing me from saying, Yeah, sure. Let's go like, you know, how do you how do you walk somebody through that?
Valerie Bowden 24:57
So depends on the size of the company. So the larger come companies, they will always have, like their HR or their legal teams always want to approve what we're doing. And so for a lot of these companies, because they don't want to, like hire in a foreign country, they work directly through us. And then we contract it out to the African team. So because we're a US registered, they just put contract work for a US company. And so that's one thing that always comes up is the part about hiring. The second question people always had is the timezone difference. So a lot of people will want to outsource to Latin America, because it's on the same timezone as the US. And, you know, we have to, you know, always promote the fact that a lot of our African talent works us hours and actually prefers that. So like, that's not like a dead end, like a lot of people kind of initially assume. And then a lot of it comes down to the, I think the training and onboarding program does need to be more intense. Because sometimes when you look at like, especially like a country like Ethiopia, which is emerging quickly, but there's like this huge amount of talent, but talent that doesn't really have as much prior experience, because they're all just kind of like, a lot of kids are just coming out of college. And so, so training and onboarding them properly is is really important to make it work,
Morgan Bailey 26:19
I think. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, other things that will come to my mind at FFR. Business Owner, one would be language differences. Oh, would be one, like, what does that look like? If maybe, if I don't have experience, you know, and I, you know, I just have assumptions like the length nail, is there going to be language barriers? And then the, the second piece is around like cultural differences. Like, is there going to be like a values differences? So how do you how do you work with people around that?
Valerie Bowden 26:51
Okay, great question. So for language, I would say, I mean, African countries, ever like those English speakers in every African country, for example, even when I was just traveling my trip, I always found English speakers. So if you want someone who is client facing, I always recommend Ethiopia because Ethiopians have almost American accents. And I have all these like audio clips. And I'm always like sending companies that show off how good their accents are. But besides that, you know, I think a lot of people outsource to the Philippines or India, and I don't know if those questions come up as much. So the cultural differences, I think you have to work around. And that's when it's really good to have kind of like a good in between person like a deist Bora, or someone like us or someone at the BPO company that kind of understands both cultures and make sure the needs are met. And I mean, we do have this issue a little bit sometimes, like an Ethiopian when someone dies, like the funeral can take several days. And so we have had clients, you know, asked about, like, why the virtual assistant with like, all week for like a funeral of one of their friend's parents or something. And that is quite cultural. So it's, it's really working with kind of an in between person who can set it up to be successful, I think on both ends.
Morgan Bailey 28:11
Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like there's an interesting opportunity for learning to. Yeah, from from a cross cultural perspective.
Valerie Bowden 28:18
Yes, I, my husband, and I always talk about that, because we have kids here, aside from anything business, like there's so many values and traits from the Ethiopian culture that we really want to raise our kids with. And I think the assumptions Americans have is that we haven't figured out and we put our value system on others and really, like, one of the best parts of working with someone across the world, in any country is you're gonna learn things from their culture that that you need for your yourself just to make you a better more holistic person. You can kind of like, Are there values you learned and like incorporate in your life? I'm living in an African countries.
Morgan Bailey 28:57
Yeah, you know, absolutely. You know, I remember, there was this time I was working. I was working on a sanitation project. And we were, we were staying at this mission that was kind of off somewhere. And I remember the, the, the person who was writing the mission was saying, Yeah, we started realizing our food bills went were going way up. And we couldn't understand why. Because we'd make all this food, we'd have leftovers. But for some reason, we kept on just spending so much on food. And like, and then when we started to ask, like, you know, the staff who was local, like what's happening, that like, oh, like, where all the leftovers gonna feel like we're making new food every day. It's like, oh, at the end of the day, like, there's leftover foods, like, we give it to the community. Because like, you have excess. And they, they don't, so yeah, and there and so there was and it was a very interesting like values alignment. Whereas like, you know, this these these people come from a sort of American or Western mindset. We're like, No, we save that. And you know that that will last us tomorrow, right? So it's not that we're wasting it right, it's more of a time that we value our time that it's going to take. Right? Whereas this other group was thinking, well, there's access here. And when you have access, you share the access. And, and that was you could see, like these two value systems kind of coming into conflict. And that always really stuck with me, in terms of like, because neither is right, and neither is wrong. And but like, you know, how can you how can you kind of use those two value systems to inform both like, yeah, it is good to save. Like, that's important. You can't just get rid of all access? And how much access is too much? Right? If you have, you know, if I have like, $400,000 in the bank or something, and I'm like, Hey, can I afford to donate $10,000 a year? Like, can I do that? Right? So it's like it, I think it kind of made me think about, like, what is my excess? And like, how can we apply today? And what is too much? Because I think is, you know, as we look at the global economy, and we look at those who have such an excess of money that you can't even imagine, like, what do you do with that, you know, you'd have to spend $5 million a day for 50 years to get rid of it. So I think that's, you know, that's one thing that always really stuck with me from a values difference perspective.
Valerie Bowden 31:25
That's cool. That's it? Yeah. It's a good example. It's, you're right, it's not necessarily one is right and one's wrong, but the questions are just making you rethink that what you think is 100% true, might not be and like, what does that lead to? And? Yeah, that's really a good example.
Morgan Bailey 31:41
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think there was, there was a lot I was confronted with, during, during my travels. And I think that's one thing that, you know, it was also something that came to me, when I started my work in in East Africa, was it, you know, the country that's working in one of the primary languages was English, and I was used to doing all my travels in Central and South America. And I was excited to go work in East Africa, as I said, oh, there won't be as much as a language barrier. Because, because a lot of people speak English there. Whereas, you know, traveling deep in Brazil, I didn't find that as much or in Paraguay. But when I got to East Africa, I realized there may not be as much of a language barrier, but there's a values barrier, or values divide, which meant that sometimes in language wasn't even a strong enough bridge to cross that sometimes. And the sense that, like, I was like, we were both speaking in English, but like, the things that they were saying, I'm like, I don't get that, like, from my value system, like what you're saying doesn't make sense. You know, and it was like, it was like, trying to, you know, talk with someone who just has such a different mindset that you're like, They neither is computing, like what the other saying it felt like a foreign language in English. And I think that really, that was such an important moment for me to realize, like, how these different value sets that we have, can lead us to such different ways of thinking and actions and perspectives. And none of it's wrong. It's just different.
Valerie Bowden 33:15
Right? And that's why Yeah, that's a good point. So that's why like, if you if someone is running a large company here, and they're looking into outsourcing, that's when it's really helpful to find a BPO company. That's, that's like American that's in African country that knows your values. And then we'll just make sure the tenant lines up the way you need to, and then on the back end there making sure also works for whoever is actually doing the work. Because, yeah, I've seen some people who are really like excited about outsourcing or hiring remote, and then they have a negative experience by just hiring someone that they met online, and there was no in between person to make sure that the system would actually work and make it, you know, good for both sides.
Morgan Bailey 34:00
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and there's, I think, particularly for international companies, like I feel like they're, that are providing services internationally. Yeah, having an international global staff and bringing a global perspective can be a huge value add. Yeah, yeah. Whereas, you know, that, you know, somebody somebody working with an African, obviously, is going to be able to talk much to much greater broader African market, but also, you know, understand things that maybe perhaps in the West, we don't. Yeah,
Valerie Bowden 34:30
I think I think that's true. And I think one thing I realized, and you probably saw too, is that African countries are so different. So even though I have a decade of experience, mostly in Ethiopia, when I'm working in Rwanda or Uganda, like I have a local partner, right, because I wouldn't even assume that I know anything about those countries, despite you know, living almost a decade a country away. It's so different. So yeah, absolutely. The local partners are key to everything.
Morgan Bailey 34:56
Yeah, absolutely. And there is such yeah, there's so It's cultural differences. And there's such, I mean, cultural nuances and variants across the continent that it I mean, it's amazing. One thing that I always remembered during during my travels here is and I think I mentioned this in our pre call is, you know, I think when I worked in Kenya, they didn't, they didn't really, most people didn't really get my sarcasm. I left some people looking at me, like, that's a strange thing to say. And I was like, okay, so I had to be careful with my humor there. But when I went to Ethiopia, for whatever reason, culturally, culturally speaking, they my sarcasm, like, like, they, I would see a smirk on my car. They go, alright, alright, so, yeah, so it's funny, even things like humor variances like change, you know, across, you know, across the continent, as well as across the world.
Valerie Bowden 35:47
Definitely, that Yeah, that's so true. I could see how Ethiopians would like or sarcasm, like knowing the culture, and they would get it for sure.
Morgan Bailey 35:55
Yeah, lessons for me. All right. So, you know, when you look forward, right, in terms of the the emerging opportunities, as well as like the demand for a global workforce, where do you see see things headed?
Valerie Bowden 36:15
I mean, I, I'm always hopeful to say that I hope more Africans can access the global talent economy. I mean, if, for example, if you look at physical products, I think African countries make up 3% of world trade. So significantly tiny amount for the size. So I hope that that is not true when it comes to talent and remote work. And I do see more and more countries, like in Africa becoming those tech hubs outsourcing, the more like fortune 500 companies are turning African countries. So I hope the stereotype changes. And if the stereotype can change around African countries, and then being like a good partner, I think the future would look different. So whether that happens or not. And I think that's what we're working towards.
Morgan Bailey 37:03
Yeah, absolutely. And because I'm curious, like maybe like pausing on that stereotype piece for a second. You know, obviously one of the largest outsourcing or populations that work is outsourced to is in India. That is, that is a very common thing in this day and age. So is difference between you seeking opportunities in India versus Africa, it's a purely stereotype
Valerie Bowden 37:31
that I think a lot of it's stereotype and then on the ground, because the country's aren't as built up, I think there's more work to be done. So for example, you know, when someone has a virtual assistant from the Philippines, part of it, like the stereotype that you kind of VAs from there, and then part of it is because it's been around for decades, you do kind of VA, so it's just more woven into the culture. And so when we, you know, met people, virtual assistants from different African countries, part of it is the stereotype overcoming that, and then part of it is we have seen the need to do extra training to make sure that they, they have those skill sets ready, because the culture hasn't really been doing, you know, virtual assistants from Ethiopia for very long, right, only for not liking the majority amount. So I think it's half stereotype. And then, you know, on the ground, there's some really cool people working to, I don't know, to make sure that everyone's set up for success, and that those business partnerships would be long lasting.
Morgan Bailey 38:28
Yeah, that makes sense. So with your own business, what is your what's your future vision for it?
Valerie Bowden 38:38
Man, my future vision is, it's always it's always evolving. You know, I love to be the spokesperson, that's just like, you need to do business and travel to African countries. And here are my favorite people that I'm obsessed with, that you should work with. And so, you know, I hope for our business, we're able to get more and more companies to take the leap and and to try hiring for the first time. Yeah, that's our that's our goal is always changing, but creating more balance, I think, in in helping companies, you know, become more diverse and more global.
Morgan Bailey 39:18
Absolutely. So for your vision to be fully realized, what are the primary milestones you need to hit or challenges that you might need to overcome?
Valerie Bowden 39:30
Wow. So right now with we're launching this training program, where we're going to put those graduates from Rwanda through it, and then we're hoping to replace them. And they have hundreds of graduates so that would probably be like our first milestone is finding companies that want to take them on as interns and take them on as new hires. And when it comes down to, you know, exact numbers. I think everything that we want to accomplish is so big that we're we're trying to work more on those like short term goals to make it more manageable and It's understandable, I guess. But yeah, I mean, I, you know, my goal would be to get some more fortune 500 companies to start outsourcing to African countries. And I think that would be a catalyst for more people to to start doing it as well. Absolutely.
Morgan Bailey 40:15
Well, I'm really excited to see the opportunity to create it sounds like you're creating some really good value for individuals for organizations. And it sounds like you're really enjoying your work, which is obviously a really good thing. So if people want to learn, if you want to learn more about cradle, how can they do so
Valerie Bowden 40:34
you can go to our website cradle.com spelled CR d l e.com. But I'm also super active on LinkedIn. So every day I'm usually posting a tip or an insight and I get a lot of messages there. So just my personal LinkedIn is a great way to also connect and learn more.
Morgan Bailey 40:53
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for everything you're doing really fun conversation. I enjoyed this and looking forward to see the opportunities you continue to create.
Valerie Bowden 41:03
Thank you so much.
Morgan Bailey 41:06
Thanks for listening to another episode of the Prophet meets impact podcast. If you enjoy this experience. Please subscribe wherever you find your podcasts and leave a positive review. You can also find out more about the podcast at www.profitmeetsimpact.com