Building India’s First Sustainable Food Packaging Company
In this episode we speak with Rhea Mazumdar Singhal, Founder and CEO of Ecoware, India’s first and largest sustainable packaging company. Rhea has been appointed a World Economic Forum ‘Young Global Leader’, and recently been commended with The Nari Shakti Puraskar, the highest civilian honor for women in India.
Imperfect Show Notes
While these notes are not perfect (computer transcription is still a work in progress), they give you the gist of the conversation. Enjoy!
My conversation with Rhea Mazumdar Singhal:
Morgan Bailey 0:02
Hello, and welcome to the profit meets impact Podcast where we explore the intersection of doing well and doing good in the world. I'm your host Morgan Bailey, and I'm excited to bring you the wisdom of entrepreneurs and thought leaders that are using business to create sustainable and meaningful change across the globe. Today, I'm excited to bring you a conversation with Rhea MASM dar single. She's the founder and CEO of eco air India's first and largest sustainable packaging company. He is also a young global leader with the World Economic Forum and chairperson for the India Women's Network. And generally a pretty fantastic person and values line human Ria, I'm really excited for this conversation. There are so many things I want to ask you. I feel like we might need like three hours, but we'll try to condense it into this. So welcome to the show.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 0:54
Hi, good morning. Good evening, Morgan. It's great to be here.
Morgan Bailey 0:58
Amazing. So you founded Ecoware, which is India's first compostable packaging company for food. Is that correct?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 1:09
Yes, that is correct.
Morgan Bailey 1:11
Wow. And in what a journey I imagine that has been and I'm so curious, you know, kind of from your experience, and where you've began in life, like, talk to me a little bit about like, how, in your earlier life did like, how did this path lead you there?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 1:31
That's a great question. So I think for me personally, we, as a family, we kind of sort of went anti plastic when I was about 19 years old, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer at that point, for the first time. And I think that's when we were really exposed to kind of lifestyle changes that we had to make. So for instance, it wasn't just about you know, the therapy, but so the the actual, like, the actual treatment, but it was also lifestyle changes that went along with it. So not microwaving your food in plastic, not, you know, using nonstick cookware, things like that not leaving like plastic water bottles in your car for ages, and sort of the seed kind of sunken was planted at that point. And then I went on to work at Pfizer. I studied, I studied pharmacology, and then I went on to work at Pfizer. And I particularly for a couple of years, I worked in oncology. So I looked after breast cancer and colon cancer. And that sort of deepened my knowledge as well. And so that was kind of the personal and professional sort of mix of it in my prior life, and then I moved to India in 2009. And I was honestly just like, shocked to see the amount of plastic people were using the eating stuff really out of it. And what was worse was that we were just littering everywhere, right? And I think when I moved, it was the first time as an adult that I threw all my waste in one dustbin and I can segregate it, which was also really strange for me. And I think, you know, so we started thinking about it. And I thought that having used products living abroad, I thought it would be an interesting idea to bring into India. And my father in law was a serial entrepreneur. And it was really funny, because at the time, no one would give me a job in the pharma world because I didn't have an MBA, so I was kind of steered towards this entrepreneur route. And my father in law was one that kind of just motivated me and said, you know, what, what have you got to lose? Just try it? And I was like, Okay, we'll try it. And that's how I really started, where I sort of toyed with the idea of becoming an entrepreneur, and I said, this would be a good idea to bring in to bring into India, it would be a valuable solution, it would be impactful. And let's see if it works. And that's kind of how the whole journey began. Really.
Morgan Bailey 4:07
Wow. I mean, I feel like there's so much to unpack there. I'm switching from a career in pharmaceuticals to, you know, moving to India and seeing this. And, I mean, there's so many other areas that you could have focused on to build a business, and particularly like going into one that might also involve manufacturing, how did you that be like, alright, this, this is the one that not only is going to make an impact, but this is one I want to lean into.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 4:37
So I think for me, Morgan, it was just that. So there were three things that were really clear to me right when we found an E core. So there were three pillars that I think still form the foundation of our organization of the brand that we built, and really represent the value that we stand for. So one was safety. So we wanted to create a product that was safe for humanity to consume there. Food added, and it was safe for the environment. So it wasn't going to outlive you like plastic doesn't, you know, end up in a landfill basically, and lie there forever. The second was purpose and impact. So we had to create impact in everything that we did from creating jobs to create inclusivity. And the third was authenticity. Because there's so much greenwash that exists. I didn't want to be seen, as, you know, just yet another sort of green solution, I wanted to make sure that ecommerce stood out as a true partner for innovation, and a true solution in our journey, so that was the thing and those so those are sort of our three founding pillars. I think about health impact has always been very close to my heart, obviously. I mean, I kind of touched about how this journey started for me. So I was really clear that this is I wanted to, you know, having done the pharmacology, having worked at Pfizer, I wanted to stay in this space, and still create a positive health impact in whatever way that I could for people on planet. And and that was the idea. So, you know, that's really how I'm sorry, I missed it. I forgotten the last bit of the question that you asked me.
Morgan Bailey 6:19
No, absolutely. I mean, I think the other part of the question was is, you know, particularly I mean, you're going into the manufacturing field, in essence,
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 6:28
right? Okay. Yeah.
Morgan Bailey 6:30
I think about that.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 6:32
So, when I started I, it honestly started as a bit of an experiment, okay, my husband was in private equity, we had no kids at the time, if I was 27 years old, if there was any time to take a risk, it was now basically it was it was that. And so I toyed with the idea of played around like, began as an experiment. My father and I was, you know, an engineer from IIT Kanpur. And he was very supportive, and really kind of helped me with the manufacturing side of things. Because that was, that hadn't been my experience. That wasn't my forte, I was always good at kind of creating brand, creating a market selling product. And that's what I was good at. And so it started really small, it was 20 people. I mean, I started recording may 2009. And we commissioned our first unit in March of 2000. And then it started small, 20 people for products. In terms of market research, I kind of decided, I will keep it simple. So I identified two three products that were popular in the market that sold well, that people there was a demand for. And I thought, let's just replicate this and create in terms of shape and size, and see if people want a healthier alternative. And in terms of the manufacturing part, I leaned in on my father in law, he's been in the sugar industry for over 35 years. And so he had a whole team of sort of engineers and you know, people that were kind of equipped with the knowledge to kind of come on board and help me set up and, and get me going and, and so why do you go where it really is, is that we use agri waste, such as wheat, rice, and sugarcane that's typically burnt, or is, you know, really had no value per se. And we convert it into packaging that's naturally biodegradable and compostable. And the beauty really for me is that we still don't have waste segregation and formal waste management in this country. And I've been doing this for 13 years. And equally bypasses the need for that. So even if it does end up in a landfill once it comes in contact with soil, it's just gonna break down into soil up to 90 days.
Morgan Bailey 8:46
So, so you started with just a few products. Yeah, it sounds like also by creating products that can just biodegrade in a landfill. They don't need to be compostable. They don't need to be composted an industrial facility, which a lot of a lot of the packaging that is plastic like that says compostable all that needs to be broken down. industrially. Right. So a lot of people throw it into the bin thinking great, it's compostable. It'll just go away. You know, it's funny, I remember the first time I saw compostable spoon at like a frozen yogurt place. And I was like, this is exciting. And I remember I buried it in the ground and being like, cool. Now granted, like, I think one of my housemates saw that the next day and was like, why is your spoon in the ground and they took it out, but it would never have biodegrade and that's something I didn't know so it sounds like I'm also curious just like the engineer and me from manufacturing standpoint, did that help keeping it simple? Like keeping the the elements simple to it not having all those other chemicals?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 9:49
No, absolutely. I mean, we are the most it's the most natural product you could consumer food out of right. And the idea is like, like It comes back to the authenticity piece, I was very clear that we had to create a closed loop solution, I wasn't going to rely on waste management, waste management that we didn't have, or artificial, like sort of end of life facilities such as recycling or industrial composting as well that we don't have. And you know, you, you were talking about the spoon incident for yourself, it was amazing, because we had a plastic band come into contact in the state of Karnataka in 2016. And it was amazing, because there was so much awareness and education in that society and the entire band was, and the movement was citizen led, right. So you had consumers pick up products, tweet about them say, this is what they are 30 days is a claim to be compostable. This is what it's 90 days. This is real decision, you know, and we had people do that for our products. And it was the best advocacy that we could ever have, because it just broke down actually. And it was fantastic. But I think the the key pieces is that the product had to be a closed loop solution. So we were really clear that we didn't want to add anything artificial limit. I mean, even today, we get, you know, we get inquiries or requests for products are designed, for instance, that would require some form of lining some form of additive. And we know that that's not going to break down. So we're really clear that if we make it it has to go into a market or our geography that has industrial composting facilities, because we don't have them here.
Morgan Bailey 11:37
And, you know, we were talking earlier about PFOs and which are very, it's a common coating and essence, Teflon is also a P fo if I'm correct. And yes, these molecules don't break down. And they're very common, even in what is said to be compostable. You know, some there coatings on what could be compostable packaging. Yes. So I mean, the and that's really that's, that's very common. So that's one of those decisions that you had to make to say, Okay, we're going to steer away from that to just really keep that natural. Yeah, no,
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 12:13
we have to because it wouldn't be a closed loop solution. Otherwise, it's not going to break down. It's not naturally going to biodegrade. It's not going to be different to we just be part of the greenwash. Yeah, which we didn't want to be. And so yeah, we were really clear that our products aren't coated with anything. Because they just avoids the requirement for waste segregation, and sort of separate, you know, industrial composting and things like that, where you
Morgan Bailey 12:42
so I'm sold, I love this. However, from the consumer standpoint, right, price always comes down to it. Right. So how was it you know, a particularly entering into the Indian market, where there may have been various levels of awareness in terms of, you know, like, what is the what is the value of going with a product versus something else? No, and the economic incentives as well, how did you navigate that to try to gain a foothold?
Unknown Speaker 13:07
Um, I think that kind of, it's a little bit of your first question as well, I think I brought in my medical sales skills from Pfizer, into this space, because I, when I started, none of our stakeholders understood what biodegradable or compostable truly meant, we didn't have industry standards that defined us. So we took it upon ourselves to be very clear, saying that, We there are certain certifications that we need to get, we made a conscious effort, like a conscious choice to invest in them. And these were, so our brand is globally self certified from, you know, US, the UK all the way down to Singapore. So that's one thing. And then, you know, we we've spent a lot of time engaging with community to create education and awareness around just healthier choices, right. More conscious consumers. why people should avoid plastics and if you need to use a disposable product like Ecoware should come into mind basically. And what we've seen very slowly is the consumer mindset mind set shift in this 13 year journey. So I think the last five, six years, we've seen Consumers ask for these products, as opposed to us kind of, you know, having to push and create a market, which is what we did right at the start of our journey and price from a price perspective. It was it was really hard to start. There was about a 3x price difference between classic and one our products. And it was just the you know, it was it was when you had that conversation across from a stakeholder it was because they actually believed this was In the future, it was they believe that this, you know, eventually they would have to move away from plastic, right? Whether it was a trader, because he made more margins on it. And it obviously will improve livelihood or even a restaurant, thinking I need to slowly get plastic out of my supply chain. And it was those kinds of conversations, it was apparent conviction, it was ability to sell and actually convince people to, you know, and to buy in. And so we kind of created these little pockets, these nice niche buckets across the country, and slowly started building sort of sales channels. But like I said, what we've seen in the last five, six years, is a lot of inbound inquiries, people coming to us, asking for the product. Price is really no longer a huge part of that conversation. It's more about can you call brand, can you make the shape and size? How quickly can you get us out? You know, what can you do for us? And those are more the conversations that we're seeing now, recently, versus at the start of our journey. And now we're gonna make that sale. Sorry. Or then important point with economies of scale, we've driven down the price differential to 10%. Wow.
Morgan Bailey 16:20
Yeah. And that's the shift from from two to three times down to 10%. That's a, that's a big jump. And, you know, when you're who who is your, who your customers, are you going direct to customer? Are you doing, you know, b2b business to business? What does that look like? And within that, like, I mean, who are your buyers?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 16:44
So our customers are split. We quick COVID We were very b2b sort of heavy business. So typically, like the travel food sector, so I'm not sure if you were but we innovated with the Indian railways were the largest meal providers in the country, they will typically serve their food and aluminum casseroles on the train. My husband came on board in about 2019 2013 Sorry. And when we sort of realized that, this was no longer an experiment, and the company kind of, you know, it was a growth is a huge growth step for the company, we we went from 20 people to over 100 We went from four products over 20 and Nisha was in charge of that, like he saw that, you know, that entire process of growth through basically commissioned our new production unit. And he worked with the railways and innovated with them for about 10 months, they created a bespoke product. So, our, our our sort of our travel segment customers started with the Indian railways. In 2021, we did a ecoflight with Etihad airlines. We saw the travel sector as one segment we work with quick service restaurants. So the likes of subway Cinnabon like pizza chain sandwich James food attracts. So a lot of food on the go a lot of cloud kitchens. We work with large scale office canteens. So an Accenture an emphasis where you basically got a large amount of food a lot of people come in you got to feed them they got to work and you know, kind of get on with it. And then we did a lot of zero waste events we COVID And I was trying to do again. So whether it's a cricket music concert, and then DTC. COVID was a small sort of space for us we we kind of played around with it a little bit. But what we saw through COVID was a revenue that was typically at about six to 7%. Shut up to 47% because everyone was sitting at home and buying online. You know, and Amazon with various lockdowns and etc, like especially in India, and supply chain kind of being affected ecommerce platforms, it seemed to be the most reliable in terms of deliveries. So we saw this sort of this segment kind of boom for us, we saw a new customer segment evolve, because everyone equated hygiene to disposable products. People were sitting at home with COVID needs to use eco, where you're isolating at home, etc. You know, you didn't want to use Reusables a lot of the hospitals are using it. So we saw this entire DDC space kind of explode for us. And that's kind of when we we launched on Amazon global so the US Mexico, Canada, various Amazon platforms. In the UAE we launched on node.com Gibson's you know, so we've basically been, we, we sort of grew in on the E commerce space. And we we also have our own e commerce platform as well. So that's equal r dot and where you can pick up products But but that's those are sort of our typical five, six revenue channels. We've now got an extensive distribution network across the country. So about 26 distributors are present in 16 countries globally. So that's where we're at.
Morgan Bailey 20:19
With that. No small feat there. That's really impressive. And and you work with your husband? It sounds like you had to win him over a little bit. You know, for a few years, I did, I gave him a job.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 20:34
I had to Oh, it was about me giving him a job. It was about me convincing him to join this journey, I think, because I had to kind of neuro away from, you know, the finance industry and say this, this is it. This is, you know, this is where it's really happening. So yeah.
Morgan Bailey 20:50
Wow. And it's amazing. And I'm curious, when looking at the market in India, right, is this it was this, it sounds like this is gone. You know, obviously, there's there's been a lot of work behind it. But it sounds like it, you've had a lot of success. Is it timing? Is it the fact that no one else was in that market? What kind of led to this really taking off?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 21:14
So I think that was, you know, the being the pioneers. Right? The disruptors being the first mover advantage definitely helped. And I think that once this sort of became a space that started becoming attractive, and people were paying more attention to because we were already in it, you know, we were established, the product was accessible, affordable, scalable, it was right there. That certainly helped. So timing was obviously, you know, we came in much before this, you know, sustainability sort of became a real conversation. And so, I think that helped. And I think, also the sheer conviction of just believing that there was a need for this, there is a need for this, you know, it's, this is the future, we've got to get rid of plastic. And being authentic about it, I think was really important. We've certified every claim we've made on our product. And we're very transparent about it. You know, when so for us, we want to be seen as the partners of choice that really like you wouldn't want to collaborate, when you want to innovate, when you're truly serious about getting, changing your supply chain, reducing your plastic footprint. You know, we definitely want to work with people like that to kind of scale impact and change things.
Morgan Bailey 22:36
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that makes sense. And it sounds like you had a little bit of runway. Sounds like you were developing this. And I think, you know, really, particularly the, the challenge of plastic is just becoming more and more into the limelight. You know, and then and then you were kind of there. I'm curious, have others started to repeat? Do you? Do you now have, you know, more competition in that space?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 23:00
Sure. We do. We do have competition? And I think that, you know, there is look. I mean, there's plastic everywhere. Right? I don't think we're innovating fast enough. I don't think there's enough solutions out there. I welcome healthy competition. So as long as it's not any more greenwash, as long as it's not someone just cutting corners to enter a market. And they're actually like, they've got authentic solutions out there. I think it's, it's, you know, it's a good space. And I think that there, like I said, we're not there isn't. There aren't enough solutions to kind of cater to the problem at the moment. But we are seeing more players come into the market, which is a good thing, the demand is increasing, we're seeing fewer people opt for plastic now. And there are more conversations around sustainable packaging. alternatives. So it's, it's definitely it's a good change. Let's put it that way.
Morgan Bailey 24:08
So, you know, I'm curious for, like, here, here in California, we I still find Styrofoam. You know, there's still I mean, it drives me It drives me crazy that that's still a challenge we have here. And so I mean, in California is one of the more progressive places in the world when it comes to environmental standards, and we're still struggling in a lot of ways. You know, from your experience, what are the barriers? Is it is it cost? Is it technology? Like what why are there some of these really harmful products out there that don't break down that don't biodegrade? Is it purely just a matter of economics?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 24:46
I think economics plays a huge part in it. Yes. Styrofoam is honestly the cheapest form of plastic you could use. It's honestly also the worst. We've seen here where people have put kind of hot food and Styrofoam plates and they just like finished the middle of it. You know, and I refuse to eat out of Styrofoam if you slap my kids touch anything that comes in styrofoam. And I think that it's, it's, it's the worst of the worst, you know? So costs yes plays a part. I think also what is? What's interesting to see Morgan is that education and you know, when someone makes an educated choice, it's a lifelong choice, right? Versus a ban or something else that kind of sports down you. So I think if a consumer was aware of how toxic Styrofoam really is, we think twice about using it would probably become more conscious and be like, Okay, can I use a, you know, a glass lockbox on the house? Or do I need to use a disposable or think I just think twice about a healthier alternative for that, whether it was a reusable or whether it was a disposable? So I think I think education is something that will drive that change, for sure.
Morgan Bailey 26:08
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's reminded me of a time I once got takeout in California. And I told a friend of mine, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, they packed it on styrofoam, and she called the restaurant and left them a lot a lengthy message about the health risks and the issues of styrofoam. So I think it is, it is it's complex, right? Because people are faced with a lot of things in particular, after COVID. I mean, small, medium sized businesses really struggled. You know, it's like that extra thing on your plate, like you also have to deal with this now. So what you know, when we look when you think about as maybe, perhaps globally, like what what is that, you know, what are the main drivers right now that you think can really help get more of the single use plastics off the market?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 27:00
In terms of global drivers, like I said, I think what we've seen post COVID Is that everyone's equated hygiene to disabled, sorry, disposables to hygiene, right. And they think that it brings down the risk of cross infection. So we saw a spike in the use of disposables, we obviously didn't want more plastic out there that needed to be, we saw healthier alternatives, like basically conversation around healthy alternatives. And so I think that's one thing, I think, too, when you the conversations around sustainability is sort of accelerating, right. And even in organizations and across industries, whether you're looking at the finance industry, whether you're looking at FMCG products, whether you're looking at it, or an Accenture, or you know, a food and beverage sort of restaurant, and I think everyone's kind of realizing that climate change is accelerating. You know, it's obviously a larger umbrella there multiple problems under it, we've all got stakeholder responsibility, we've got to change our ways. And I think we're seeing that supply chains across the world want to become more sustainable. We're seeing plastic bands come in across the world, you know, that are negating the use of single use plastics. So people are starting to have to design to, like, think about this, basically, at least in a more productive way. I think in the last five years, we saw a lot of people make commitments. You know, 20 years from now or 15 years from now, and I kept thinking you might not even be in this job. By the time this comes through. But But I think we're seeing more realistic commitments come into play. We're seeing more serious conversations happen. And more Yeah, more commitment actually finding solutions to this.
Morgan Bailey 28:57
And here's the challenge. I was just, I was just reading a note by another business who's who goes plastic free. And they were saying the average person eats I think it was a credit card size worth of plastic a week. And microplastics think about that. Yes, terrible.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 29:16
That is disgusting. I mean, so our kids the school that they go to have a plastic drive. And so they've been encouraged to bring plastic waste from home to school where they collect it and then it's kind of sent off. And every day our son's like, just grabbing little pieces of plastic and like just eradicating everything from the house to kind of take back to school, collect it and dispose of it responsibly.
Morgan Bailey 29:46
You know, as I'm listening to this, I think crosses my mind from my experience traveling and whatnot, is that going plastic free is also currently it feels like a privilege and and that you know in a lot to areas where there isn't safe drinking water, right? Like, you'd have to have a plastic bottle of clean drinking water and a lot of places, or like, it's just that it's just the cheaper option or you know that it's a lot of extra thought to think about how to go plastic free. So, you know, do you do you see is like, there? Is there any need to address any sort of equity gap and making plastic free, more accessible for everyone?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 30:24
I don't, I don't necessarily think that's true. Like the example I always give is an India I think we've always been a very frugal society. Like, I remember my grandparents growing up, I mean, it's not like we went out and bought plastic bottles. You know, we were encouraged to carry our water bottles from the house. And, you know, use them, refill them, or we could we used we used and we used products, right? We mean by the circular economy, like there was no like, there was very little of, let's buy, let's use let's throw away it was like, well as violets use, and let's see how we can reuse and reuse and reuse. And that's for me, it's conscious consumerism. And that's why I think we need to come back to I don't, I always say that it's it's, you know, equal where it is, yes, a solution. But it might not be. But there are situations where you maybe perhaps want to use a reusable product, or maybe that's more sensible to use a reusable product. But if you're in a situation where you need to use a disposable, just don't be using plastic, use a healthier alternative, right. And so I think that there is an element of reusable that we need to bring back to our consumerism, not everything has to be quick on the go instant, you know, and always convenient. So yeah.
Morgan Bailey 31:53
Yeah. And I think that's a big thing, too. It is like, yeah, does everything need to be that convenient? You know, I look at some of the gadgets you see at the store, and like, Did we really need to create this new gadget to help us, you know, cook her eggs, you know, six seconds faster? Right, that's just gonna, you know, break and half a year and go into the trash. And that's something that like, I think it's ultimately I mean, we're gonna have to wrestle with that society, right? Like, is this worth creating? Right? Beyond the fact that yes, you can make money with it. But is it worth creating? Is it a value add to society? And is it a value add to society over the long run?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 32:30
Yeah. Is it really I mean, aside from being instant, and convenient, the question is, is it a value add? You very rightly said it?
Morgan Bailey 32:40
Yeah. You know, and now, I have come a rule when I purchase things, I say, Do I want to own take responsibility for this? Energy? Right? I mean, it's, it's a piece of energy that not only you have to think about, but it's a place you have dispose of it like do I, and essence I'm like, do I want this plastic on my karma? And a lot of times, I don't actually. I mean, yeah, that sounds cool. That sounds fun. But I, you know, I don't need it.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 33:05
So my husband and I have been birthday balloons. And we've already seen as like horrible parents, but we're like, that's just an immense amount of plastic that you don't need. You know, so we're very conscious of what we allow in the house, how we buy, what is it? Do you really need it? Can you do without it? You know, does something like this, like this already existed home? Can we repurpose it? Can we reuse it? So yeah, I think it's important to kind of bring that thought process back into decision making.
Morgan Bailey 33:44
So I'm curious, in addition to your business, and being a mother of two children and two dogs, you also do speaking and consulting? And And I'm curious, like, for those like, what sort of recommendations or what sort of lessons have you learned that for others who are looking to create an impact focus business do you think are the most crucial things to think about?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 34:12
Um, one of the crucial things to think about when you're creating an impact when you're trying to create an impact business, I think it's define your impact. Right. So for us, we've created threefold impact in the sector of social health and environment. I think it should be measurable impact. So I can clearly say that we displaced over a billion pieces of single use plastic in our journey. You know, we've created an industry that never existed before we've created employment 30% of our team are women. You know, so I think those numbers and so it's important to have measured impact. And I think impact just needs to be at the core of your decision making. It's the core of our brand. It's what we do, and You know, I take a lot of pride to say that we're a small scale industry or small, medium scale industry. And I think if we can be this impactful, there's no reason why larger scale industries can't.
Morgan Bailey 35:13
Absolutely, yeah. And I think that the measurable piece is so important, because I mean, keeping that front and center, because it's, it's easy to get lost in the solution. And it's easy to fall in love with the solution, and lose sight of the impact.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 35:26
Yeah. And we've got, you know, we've got the SDGs to guide us, you've got so many things like out there, basically, to kind of help you think about the kind of impact that you are creating or you want to quit.
Morgan Bailey 35:40
Yeah, absolutely. So, another thing that comes to mind when creating a business, and particularly impact those focused businesses is around finances. And so like, for actually finding, you know, the, the equity to be able to invest? Did you find that that was a challenge at all? Were there any barriers for you, because you were creating an impact focused business.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 36:03
So I think the the I mean, so to give you where we are, financially, we are bootstrapped. We received two grants through COVID. One was from Dubai, Expo 2020. And their innovation program, innovative program, the global innovator program, and the other was from Unreasonable Impact in partnership with Barclays, who were also supporting businesses, that we're helping find solutions to COVID. And it has been challenging because I think, very honestly, Morgan, sustainable packaging hasn't been a sexy space, right. It certainly wasn't in 2009. It wasn't a business that was sort of trending or common, you know, I was an opening in a cloud kitchen or creating, you know, an app. Also, I think being in the manufacturing space. Sort of, you know, was was basically was not not everyone's cup of tea, let's put it that way. But I think conversations have changed. I think what's happening now we're seeing with the finance industry, as well as mandates is that they are sort of having, they've got verticals for ESG ESG investing, you know, they've got this more sort of conversations around businesses that are circular economy aligned, and sort of identifying them. I think it's still very new, though. Because I don't think that everyone truly understands this space. So, you know, for us, like, we're really clear that if we had to get an investor on board, it would be not just I mean, it would be yesterday, obviously, help us financially, but also truly help us scale our impact to their networks, you know, etc. I mean, it just wouldn't be cutting us a check.
Morgan Bailey 38:06
Yeah. So, you know, for others who might be looking to start an impact focused business, would you say that would be a recommendation that when looking for investors, don't just look for the money, also look for the values alignment?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 38:19
Of course, that goes without saying, I mean, this is your product and your company, and someone, you know, if you're, if they're going to be part of your decision making, and you're diluting your company to them and bringing them on board, then they really got to be aligned with your values as well. You know, anyone can you could go to a bank and get a loan and be financially sorted, you know that that's an option too, right. But if you are truly diluting your organization, something you've built, it has to be to someone who understands what you're doing and who can actually help you with that purpose.
Morgan Bailey 38:59
And so you've been, I think you first started having this idea and building this during 2009 launch first products in 2010. So you've been in this industry for over a decade? Have you found that you're finding more investors who are more conscious and wanting to invest in enterprises like this?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 39:22
I am seeing that now. Yes. Like I said, I think we're seeing more conversations around sustainable businesses then before, certainly, but I don't think I still think the investor space needs a little bit more like a deeper understanding on what they're really trying to look for. Because I think there are you know, you can have sort of, especially in our space, right, so you can have winner bottom of the pyramid because not working directly with a farmer. We do work with consumers. We're consumer based business. We're not purely a DTC business. So we're having this in between space, right, which is still new for everybody. But I think what is interesting to see is that, like I said, there are more conversations on circular economy. There's more. There's, you know, more interest in ESG. To say, show us your impact. Let's see measurable numbers. What is it that you're actually doing? Yeah, so I think that that landscape is changing. But I still think we've got a little bit more work to do in that space.
Morgan Bailey 40:31
Yeah, absolutely. I was just having a conversation from the other day with an individual who worked for works through the University of California, Santa Barbara at their brand school, and they were talking about how they were, they're looking to create, you know, support for investors to understand what it actually means to impact invest beyond just looking at the finances. Because so many investors there, that's what they're good at. They're looking at financial models, but to to assess like, what does it mean to actually make an impact beyond what what could be greenwashing is something that's really nuanced?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 41:05
No, I agree. And I think there's, I don't think there's a standardized language as well, just yet. Like, I mean, just look at the ESG frameworks, right, there's several of them kind of floating around. So it's just, it's everyone aligned and speaking the same lingo, I think it's still kind of work in progress. So, you know, it is, and I think also, like, when you I think, the financial metrics and the non financial ones, so your ESG impact, etc, should sort of add the same amount of wastage in what you're trying to do. And I don't think that's what we're seeing just yet. Yeah.
Morgan Bailey 41:47
Well, I think that, you know, as, as time continues, and I think as public pressure and as well as finances grow, for these sorts of investments, I think that sector will develop, it's gonna take some time. And it's probably going to be said, there's going to be some ups and downs and some new couple steps forward a couple steps back sort of thing. But I'm hopeful that we're, we're headed in a in a solid direction, no
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 42:10
better. No, absolutely. So my and I think what's what's great to see is that a lot of investors like their LPs are starting to put pressure on him right? as well. The LPS want different types of investments, we're seeing that we're seeing financial institutions that have more concrete conversations around ESG demystifying it, wanting to know more about it. So yeah, I think we're headed in the right direction. It's just about how quickly we get there.
Morgan Bailey 42:35
Yes, yes. In the US, at least whether they try to create legislation to block ESG within business, which is something that's well, that's that's a whole nother topic.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 42:44
Exactly. I think that's gonna take another podcast altogether. Yeah, absolutely.
Morgan Bailey 42:48
Absolutely. So So when looking forward at you know, for your business, what do you see is, I guess, two questions. One, what are the main obstacles that you're, you know, for truly to take off that you're gonna have to surmount? And then what's what's possible for your business?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 43:02
Oh, let's start with what's possible. So our focus in the last over the last 10 years has typically been sort of the food and beverage space, right. So we have, we created a range of tableware, that services dining as well as takeaway packaging, what we're envisioning sort of moving forward, and what we're really working on is a lot more innovation across different industries. So whether it's E commerce, sustainable fashion, it's the medical industry, we're, you know, we're working across industries, to help them reduce their plastic footprint. And that's, that's the exciting part. So we're creating new products here, new revenue channels. And look, we're looking forward to kind of go on to kind of commercial production with these different sort of, with with these different applications. The obstacles, I think, number one for us is that we are looking to fundraise. You know, we're currently we can't keep up with the demand we've created, which is not a bad place to be. But you know, so I think fundraising with the right partner is something that I wouldn't say as a challenge or an obstacle, but it's, you know, we got a current cross that bridge. The second I think, is also for us, it's in like, within India, we're trying to reduce our taxation or product, we're exposed to something called a goods and service tax. And we're trying to reduce that, because just to make the product more affordable and more, you know, accessible. And I think the third, you know, Morgan for us, and I think will always remain at the core is education and awareness. I really feel there's so much greenwash out there that we're battling. It's funny that right at the start of the conversation you brought up, I think, an example of the spoon right? And we have a We have a global coffee chain that came into India a few years ago. And I saw that they've got these where they claim a compostable cups. And they've just put a disclaimer at the bottom saying that this is a commerce, this is a compostable Cup, where there might not be a composting facility in your area. And I thought your responsibility has to go beyond that. Like that's can't just be a disclaim on a product and be done with it. Like we know that we don't have industrial composting facilities in India, you probably got over 100 stores in this country. So I think meaningful commitment, and I think education at sort of every stakeholder level, whether you're a shareholder, your CEO, your consumer, whatever it is.
Morgan Bailey 45:46
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I think those the education piece is so critical. And I think the accountability piece, too, you know, and that's why I'm always curious, like from Polly's policy perspective, like how can we keep some of these organizations accountable for greenwashing, which just happens so frequently? And and it does so much harm to the overall education process? Because it's it's putting false information out there and giving people a false sense of hope?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 46:15
Absolutely. And I think the only thing that keeps me positive is that the consumers are changing. I mean, they're going to be our kids of the world, are you ready to start to them? You know, they're we're seeing, you know, consumers, align their purchasing to more conscious brands, and then that's just going to become more and more like, we're not going to come back from that. So yeah.
Morgan Bailey 46:38
Well, this was such a fantastic conversation on my client, which I wish we had more time, so many different directions on ticket. People, if people want to learn more about you learn more about Ecoware. Where can they find you?
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 46:50
So our website is ecoware.in, so you can find us on there. And that's the best place to find is we're on Instagram On Facebook as EcowareIndia. So just drop us a note and we'll be happy to get back to you.
Morgan Bailey 47:07
Amazing, and I'll put all those notes in the show. Put all those links in the show notes. Yes. Thank you so much. So excited to see where this goes. For for you for India for all of us. And just thank you so much for all the all the leadership you're taking on this.
Rhea Mazumdar Singhal 47:25
Thank you, Morgan. It was a great conversation. I'm glad we got to connect and do this.
Morgan Bailey 47:30
Thanks for listening to another episode of the Profit Meets Impact podcast. If you enjoy this experience. Please subscribe wherever you find your podcasts and leave a positive review. You can also find out more about the podcast at www.profitmeetsimpact.com